3 ms·

>They are biased, but if the facts are accurate, that's irrelevant. Not really: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/aug/20/bernie-sanders/sanders-says-

by schemy 6y ago

>They are biased, but if the facts are accurate, that's irrelevant. Not really: https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/aug/20/bernie-sanders/sanders-says-us-doubles-every-other-country-capita/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2009/aug/20/bernie-san... >The OECD's numbers tell a similar story. In 2007, the OECD said that the United States spent $7,290 per capita on health care, ranking it first among the 30 countries studied. Five other nations spent more than $3,645 per capita, the point at which the United States no longer doubles their spending. The highest is the Netherlands at $4,417. The other four were Austria, Canada, Norway and Switzerland. So he was rated as wrong for saying 'double' because it was actually 1.65 times for one country out of thirty. Oh and they used the dollar exchange rate for their numbers, not the PPP which is what actually matters.

shadowgovt 6y ago
If the facts are not accurate, that's relevant. On average, are the facts accurate? Also, 1.65 isn't double. I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.
- benrbray 6y ago
  1.65 is not the average ratio, it's the smallest ratio among the group of countries under consideration. So, it's intentionally misleading. Regardless, even if the average WERE 1.65, that's still a damning enough number that the meter shouldn't be all the way to the "False" side.
  - shadowgovt 6y ago
    Since the statement they're fact checking is "twice as much... than any other nation," averages don't apply; the smallest ratio is the strongest counterexample. Politicians can avoid being fact checked like this by using less absolute statements in their rhetoric.
    - schemy 6y ago
      They are also using exchange rate $ equivalent instead of PPP, the ratio then is 1.93 for the Netherlands to the US. This is a lie by the fact checkers. One that pushes an agenda that's obvious to see for everyone who cares to look.
      - shadowgovt 6y ago
        What agenda is that? (Additionally, PPP is a model someone can use, but it's hardly agreed upon universally as the correct model for equivalent spend value. It's a "basket of goods" model, influenced by the goods chosen. At worst, Politifact is guilty of making a judgement call based on a choice of metric that reasonable people can disagree on, which is hardly "a lie" that "pushes an agenda").
      - celtain 6y ago
        The Netherlands PPP conversion factor is less than 1, and was in 2009 as well. This means that each Euro spent by the Netherlands goes further than the exchange rate equivalent number of dollars would go in the US. Wouldn't adjusting for PPP bring their healthcare spending up, not down, making Sanders less correct, not more?

by schemy 6y ago

shadowgovt 6y ago

If the facts are not accurate, that's relevant. On average, are the facts accurate? Also, 1.65 isn't double. I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

benrbray 6y ago
1.65 is not the average ratio, it's the smallest ratio among the group of countries under consideration. So, it's intentionally misleading. Regardless, even if the average WERE 1.65, that's still a damning enough number that the meter shouldn't be all the way to the "False" side.
- shadowgovt 6y ago
  Since the statement they're fact checking is "twice as much... than any other nation," averages don't apply; the smallest ratio is the strongest counterexample. Politicians can avoid being fact checked like this by using less absolute statements in their rhetoric.
  - schemy 6y ago
    They are also using exchange rate $ equivalent instead of PPP, the ratio then is 1.93 for the Netherlands to the US. This is a lie by the fact checkers. One that pushes an agenda that's obvious to see for everyone who cares to look.
    - shadowgovt 6y ago
      What agenda is that? (Additionally, PPP is a model someone can use, but it's hardly agreed upon universally as the correct model for equivalent spend value. It's a "basket of goods" model, influenced by the goods chosen. At worst, Politifact is guilty of making a judgement call based on a choice of metric that reasonable people can disagree on, which is hardly "a lie" that "pushes an agenda").
    - celtain 6y ago
      The Netherlands PPP conversion factor is less than 1, and was in 2009 as well. This means that each Euro spent by the Netherlands goes further than the exchange rate equivalent number of dollars would go in the US. Wouldn't adjusting for PPP bring their healthcare spending up, not down, making Sanders less correct, not more?