3 ms·

Unfortunately, your definition for "live comfortably" tends to change as you accumulate more money.

by splat 16y ago

DarkShikari 16y ago
This leads to an interesting question that I've been wondering about lately. But first some background. One hacker that I work with is currently unemployed. He is absolutely brilliant and could easily land an incredibly good job at basically anywhere he wanted. He's an expert in many widely-demanded but under-supplied abilities, such as reverse engineering. But he doesn't take a job. After college, he worked for a few years at a tech company, then quit. Why? Because he could pay for his cheap apartment, food, and internet access using interest on his investments and the periodic small contract. To him, having a place to stay where he can play video games and hack on cool projects was "living comfortably". Now to me. Over the past few years, I've gone from having practically no money (~$2000 total savings over an entire childhood) to having more than I know what to do with -- through a combination of internships, then contract work, my current job, and finally my startup. Now that I'm about to graduate from college, my income will increase even more -- in large part due to no longer having to pay for college. Of course, I'm probably still "poor" by HN standards. But I still can't think of anything to spend it on. I haven't even considered getting a car. I'm quite happy with my ~90 sq. ft. dorm room -- bigger just means more work to clean it. I have a good laptop and some external hard drives. I can afford the food I want. If 1 million dollars were dumped on me tomorrow, I'd buy a new desktop computer, invest a bit in my startup (on a real website, etc), stuff the rest in my bank account, and go on with my life as normal. But people I've worked with, even those near my age -- particularly at startups -- constantly talk about "what they'll do with the money". They'll get a Ferrari or a BMW. They'll get that big house they always wanted. They'll take a cruise in the Caribbean. This sort of attitude consciously bothers me. I've experienced the same sort of thing when visiting some mildly rich distant relatives in an expensive country club -- I look around and see tons of money being "wasted". I know it makes sense from their perspective, but to me, it seems senseless. ... and this all makes me wonder: am I just weird? Or is there something more to this?
- HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
  No, you're not weird. Just at a different point on the Life Curve. I've been a developer for about 20 years. When I got out of college I lived in a crappy little apartment in a crappy neighborhood in a crappy town. And I loved it. The job paid me to do stuff that I was already doing for free and even though I didn't make much, I spent even less, so I was piling up more money than I knew what to do with. Now, more stable and with a wife and family, I couldn't imagine living like that ever again. It lost its appeal a long time ago. Why do we work? If we're being paid, what's wrong with spending to make ourselves happy? You think a computer and a website are important to you, they think Ferraris and cruises are important. Neither is "better," just different and reflect different priorities. Don't castigate people for spending what they can afford: it's their money to do with as they wish. Especially don't think for a second that there is some nobility in being poor, or thrifty. Few people are poor by choice and the thrifty often would not be if they could afford to spend.
sunchild 16y ago
In my case, I have a good idea what "comfortable" living is. At the low end, I would need around $2K net/mo (assuming I were to relocate to S. Asia – something that I've given serious thought to doing). If I stayed here in Manhattan, NYC, I would need at least $10K net/mo. If I moved to Japan (another place I've considered), I wouldn't need to pay for housing, so I could live on a few K net/ mo. At times in my life, I've had enough money to spend a lot. I learned an important lesson: the more you spend, the more stuff you get, the more time you spend worrying about where to put that stuff, the more time you spend maintaining or selling that stuff, etc. Now, I spend my money on travel, food, mortgage, utilities and computers. My wife buys shoes and clothes, but she's one of those naturally stylish women who makes inexpensive stuff look better than overpriced, tacky name-brand junk. We aren't frugal, but we are in a sweet spot for spending that is genuinely the comfort zone for us. I would make a big effort to keep things the same way even if I had a pile of cash in the bank. The only exception might be some real estate projects, because I like to work on renovations as a hobby.

Unfortunately, your definition for "live comfortably" tends to change as you accumulate more money.

by splat 16y ago

Unfortunately, your definition for "live comfortably" tends to change as you accumulate more money.

This leads to an interesting question that I've been wondering about lately. But first some background. One hacker that I work with is currently unemployed. He is absolutely brilliant and could easily land an incredibly good job at basically anywhere he wanted. He's an expert in many widely-demanded but under-supplied abilities, such as reverse engineering. But he doesn't take a job. After college, he worked for a few years at a tech company, then quit. Why? Because he could pay for his cheap apartment, food, and internet access using interest on his investments and the periodic small contract. To him, having a place to stay where he can play video games and hack on cool projects was "living comfortably". Now to me. Over the past few years, I've gone from having practically no money (~$2000 total savings over an entire childhood) to having more than I know what to do with -- through a combination of internships, then contract work, my current job, and finally my startup. Now that I'm about to graduate from college, my income will increase even more -- in large part due to no longer having to pay for college. Of course, I'm probably still "poor" by HN standards. But I still can't think of anything to spend it on. I haven't even considered getting a car. I'm quite happy with my ~90 sq. ft. dorm room -- bigger just means more work to clean it. I have a good laptop and some external hard drives. I can afford the food I want. If 1 million dollars were dumped on me tomorrow, I'd buy a new desktop computer, invest a bit in my startup (on a real website, etc), stuff the rest in my bank account, and go on with my life as normal. But people I've worked with, even those near my age -- particularly at startups -- constantly talk about "what they'll do with the money". They'll get a Ferrari or a BMW. They'll get that big house they always wanted. They'll take a cruise in the Caribbean. This sort of attitude consciously bothers me. I've experienced the same sort of thing when visiting some mildly rich distant relatives in an expensive country club -- I look around and see tons of money being "wasted". I know it makes sense from their perspective, but to me, it seems senseless. ... and this all makes me wonder: am I just weird? Or is there something more to this?

HeyLaughingBoy 16y ago
No, you're not weird. Just at a different point on the Life Curve. I've been a developer for about 20 years. When I got out of college I lived in a crappy little apartment in a crappy neighborhood in a crappy town. And I loved it. The job paid me to do stuff that I was already doing for free and even though I didn't make much, I spent even less, so I was piling up more money than I knew what to do with. Now, more stable and with a wife and family, I couldn't imagine living like that ever again. It lost its appeal a long time ago. Why do we work? If we're being paid, what's wrong with spending to make ourselves happy? You think a computer and a website are important to you, they think Ferraris and cruises are important. Neither is "better," just different and reflect different priorities. Don't castigate people for spending what they can afford: it's their money to do with as they wish. Especially don't think for a second that there is some nobility in being poor, or thrifty. Few people are poor by choice and the thrifty often would not be if they could afford to spend.

sunchild 16y ago

In my case, I have a good idea what "comfortable" living is. At the low end, I would need around $2K net/mo (assuming I were to relocate to S. Asia – something that I've given serious thought to doing). If I stayed here in Manhattan, NYC, I would need at least $10K net/mo. If I moved to Japan (another place I've considered), I wouldn't need to pay for housing, so I could live on a few K net/ mo. At times in my life, I've had enough money to spend a lot. I learned an important lesson: the more you spend, the more stuff you get, the more time you spend worrying about where to put that stuff, the more time you spend maintaining or selling that stuff, etc. Now, I spend my money on travel, food, mortgage, utilities and computers. My wife buys shoes and clothes, but she's one of those naturally stylish women who makes inexpensive stuff look better than overpriced, tacky name-brand junk. We aren't frugal, but we are in a sweet spot for spending that is genuinely the comfort zone for us. I would make a big effort to keep things the same way even if I had a pile of cash in the bank. The only exception might be some real estate projects, because I like to work on renovations as a hobby.