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The fact that something, anything, can be declared a national security risk without offering any proof for it whatsoever should worry everyone. Pretty sure EU
by disgu 6y ago
The fact that something, anything, can be declared a national security risk without offering any proof for it whatsoever should worry everyone.
Pretty sure EU car manufacturers like Daimler or VW would like to buy up Tesla's European operations for cheap. Just need the government to simply declare them to be a national security threat and force them to sell or lose access to the largest market on the planet.
- puranjay 6y agoYou can very well make the argument that all the cameras in Tesla's cars can be used for surveillance and hence, pose a threat to national security. No evidence needed - the precedence has been set.
- SV_BubbleTime 6y agoWasn't it shown that TikTok (and LinkedIn to be fair) was accessing camera and/or clipboard when it didn't need to? I have no dog in this fight, but isn't there at least a little evidence that TikTok may be collecting data on a large scale? I haven't been following it all that closely, but I thought that's what the original bans for military members was about. Edit: So, yes, but that’s ok because others were too.
- paxys 6y agoAfter the clipboard thing came to light people quickly found that a ton of major apps (including Reddit) were doing it as well.
- mullingitover 6y ago> Wasn't it shown that TikTok (and LinkedIn to be fair) was accessing camera and/or clipboard when it didn't need to? There's a gigantic list of apps that were revealed to be accessing things like the clipboard in iOS 14. I just installed the beta, and I found that my credit union's app reads the clipboard every time I open it. My third-party reddit app does the same thing. TikTok doing it isn't really even news. There are dozens to hundreds of apps doing it, and it's likely a bug.
- chrischen 6y agoYea TikTok being mentioned was just clickbait/political because it was a Chinese app.
- vkou 6y agoGiven how this administration behaves, it's just occurred to me that it's also equally likely that TikTok is being singled out because it was used to coordinate the bogus Trump rally ticket reservations. Any time a firm, app, or organization does something to offend or inconvenience the man, he launches an attack against it. There's certainly a pattern of this behaviour.
- djeiasbsbo 6y agoMany apps are doing that (Tik Tok for sure is too), I have recently analysed a lot of apps on android. But it's nothing new really, just happened to become a "mainstream headline" now. Another thing that most people don't even realise, is that on android, every app can access the clipboard. Many apps do it continually, even in the background. I think I have some past comments here on HN explaining more about how I restrict this type of behaviour if you're interested.
- kanox 6y agoIsn't camera access something that needs to be explicitly granted through the mobile OS? By default TikTok requires no permissions and doesn't even ask for a phone number to register.
- djeiasbsbo 6y agoWell, the user can only control the bare minimum by default. On first launch (on Android), TikTok also reads the Sim Country Iso, a list of the available sensors, the network operator (ISP), a list of installed applications, the wifi BSSID and the Android ID. It is kind of easy to build a user data profile on Android because the user doesn't even know that all of these datapoints can be gathered without any permissions. The actual implememtation of the permission system really is more "for show" imo.
- brnt 6y agoHere is the secret: Teslas factories already are built out of machines mostly out of the European car manufacturing ecosystem. Tesla is already a European success, quite the opposite of being a threat.
- refurb 6y agoBig difference between selling them machines and selling the end product.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- bezmenov 6y agoYou’re living through a Cold War, you just haven’t realised it yet.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 6y agoI don't mind the version where I don't have to worry if I'll wake up to sirens followed by a nuke getting dropped on my city.
- dnhz 6y agoWhen the nukes come, there won’t be any sirens. It’ll be instant vaporization anyway.
- prewett 6y agoOff-topic, but if you're inside a building or outside the 1/2 mi central radius, you won't be vaporized. At which point you want to make sure you are protected from the fireball which is coming; ideally you go inside a solid structure. This will protect from 3rd degree burns from the fireball, from the air pressure wave coming afterwards (hence solidity to prevent collapse), and from the highest radiation. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjd8bq/how-to-survive-a-nuclear-bomb https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qjd8bq/how-to-survive-a-n...
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- abc-xyz 6y agoA lot of things are considered national security risks despite lacking what you might consider proof of wrongdoing. It’s quite frankly baffling that people can’t see why one of the most popular social media platforms wouldn’t be considered a national security risk, especially after what we saw during the last presidential election.
- aluminum96 6y agoI don't think this is an isomorphic situation. Chinese companies are different from EU/American ones because: (1) The CCP is a secretive, authoritarian government with an established disregard for human rights. (2) China already imposes draconian restrictions on American (and EU!) companies, far in excess of the proposed restrictions on TikTok, e.g. forced "joint ventures" with Chinese firms resulting in wholesale theft of IP. (3) Unlike the EU, China is involved in a wide-reaching and pre-existing geopolitical power struggle with the US.
- jiofih 6y agoThe US is also a secretive, authoritarian government with an established disregard for human rights, as recent events have shown again.
- valuearb 6y agoAhh, the old moral equivalent whataboutism. I remember that in WW2 both the Nazis and U.S. put people in camps, so they must have been morally equivalent.
- tracker1 6y agoOkay, right now/recently China is sterilizing millions of muslim refugees and placing them in "re-education" facilities. While pretty much wholesale taking over a territory that had much more freedom. I'm not sure there are recent examples of US actions that even compare in scale or scope. -- edit: This also doesn't even get into the scale of the nation state cyber espionage activities. If you work in any government agency, or work with the government, your networks are under constant attacks.
- yogthos 6y agoI get a feeling that a lot of Americans are just utterly ignorant of what their government is doing. The reality of the situation is that China is nowhere close to US when it comes to atrocities and human rights abuses. Let's start with the fact that they have the highest prison population per capita in the world, and that population is disproportionately formed of minorities. The prisoners are also often used for slave labor [1]. US has a long track record of oppressing minorities domestically, even Nazi Germany took direct inspiration from US racism and segregation [2]. US also has the most militarized police force in the world that regularly kills innocent people without provocation. And really, it's hard to think of a better measure of authoritarianism than the percentage of the population that a regime keeps behind bars. US also tortures dissidents [3] like Chelsea Manning, and uses companies like Google and Facebook to conduct mass surveillance on the population as we now know thanks to Snowden leaks. US has concentration camps on the border where children are left to die screaming [4], and a literal torture camp in Guantanamo where they're occupying Cuban sovereign land. US experimented on the population of Bikini Islands[5] seeing what effects radiation exposure would have on people and their children. Meanwhile, the citizens in US have very little say in regards to how their government is run or what happens to them. For example, here's what a Cambridge study analyzing decades of US policy has to say: > What do our findings say about democracy in America? They certainly constitute troubling news for advocates of “populistic” democracy, who want governments to respond primarily or exclusively to the policy preferences of their citizens. In the United States, our findings indicate, the majority does not rule—at least not in the causal sense of actually determining policy outcomes. When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites or with organized interests, they generally lose. Moreover, because of the strong status quo bias built into the U.S. political system, even when fairly large majorities of Americans favor policy change, they generally do not get it.[6] On the world stage, US killed millions of people around the globe in wars of aggression [7]. After WW2, US weaponized nationalism in Europe as part of American foreign policy strategy [8]. They killed over half a million [9] in Iraq alone by conservative estimates. They also used depleted uranium, which is banned by international law, that's still resulting [10] in horrific birth [11] defects to this day. They horrifically tortured people in Abu Ghriab [12]. They killed countless people in Afghanistan based on complete lies[13], and where US heavily used drone strikes resulting in mass civilian casualities[14]. Over 800,000 people have been murdered in the war on terror so far[15]. They're responsible for destroying Libya that went from being one of the richest nations in the region to a hellhole with slave markets [16]. They overthrew a secular and democratic government in Iran [17] resulting in the current theocracy. And that's just around Middle East. Go read up on Vietnam, Korea, the contras, and Pinochet. All of this is well documented publicly available information. US is currently involved in Syria, Afghanistan, Maghreb, Horn of Africa, North-West Pakistan, Somalia, and Libya[18]. US is actively participating in a literal genocide in Yemen [19] with their best buds Saudi Arabia. US is still occupying Iraq despite the Iraqi government that they themselves installed having formally asked them to leave [20]. The list of US atrocities spans over half a century [21], and they're ongoing today. China might do a lot of terrible things, but thinking that their government is the worst in terms of oppression, censorship, and subjugation of minority groups is just ignorant. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/23/prisoner-speak-out-american-slave-labor-strike https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/23/prison...) [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-america-taught-the-nazis/540630/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-am... [3] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/31/chelsea-manning-us-torture-un-official-wikileaks https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/31/chelsea-mann... [4] https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-cell-where-a-sick-16-year-old-boy-died-in-border-patrol-care https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-the-cell-where-a-s... [5] https://theconversation.com/bikini-islanders-still-deal-with-fallout-of-us-nuclear-tests-more-than-70-years-later-58567 https://theconversation.com/bikini-islanders-still-deal-with... [6] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-politics/article/testing-theories-of-american-politics-elites-interest-groups-and-average-citizens/62327F513959D0A304D4893B382B992B/core-reader https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/perspectives-on-poli... [7] http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder.html http://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder.... [8] https://yasha.substack.com/p/weaponizing-fascism-for-democracy https://yasha.substack.com/p/weaponizing-fascism-for-democra... [9] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-war-deaths-survey-2013/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131015-iraq-... [10] https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/09/21/new-study-documents-depleted-uranium-impacts-on-children-in-iraq/ https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2019/09/21/new-study-do... [11] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/oct/13/world-health-organisation-iraq-war-depleted-uranium https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/o... [12] https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/05/10/torture-at-abu-ghraib https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/05/10/torture-at-abu... [13] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/... [14] https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/ https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-comp... [15] https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/13/so-called-war-terror-has-killed-over-801000-people-and-cost-64-trillion-new-analysis https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/13/so-called-war-t... [16] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-slave-auctions-un-migration https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/10/libya-public-s... [17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta... [18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_involving_the_United_States#21st-century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_armed_conflicts_involv... [19] https://www.genocidewatch.com/yemen https://www.genocidewatch.com/yemen [20] https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/10/were-staying-us-tells-iraq-after-being-asked-leave https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/10/were-staying-us... [21] https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrociti...