5 ms·

Not if this is the only way to protect its citizens. Not saying it's the case here but forcing a company to sale it's business to a local entity in order to pro

by dx034 6y ago

Not if this is the only way to protect its citizens. Not saying it's the case here but forcing a company to sale it's business to a local entity in order to proceed offering it on a local market isn't unheard of and can make sense.

amf12 6y ago
> Not if this is the only way to protect its citizens. There are other ways, like enacting laws mandating data storage be in the US.
- diebeforei485 6y ago
  If China-based engineers have access to TikTok's US-based servers, they can still hand over data to the CCP (or be forced to do so). The only way out is to move engineering, SRE, and testing out of China and hard-fork the codebase.
  - amf12 6y ago
    > If China-based engineers have access to TikTok's US-based servers, they can still hand over data to the CCP (or be forced to do so). 1. That is illegal. 2. Theoretically this also currently applies to Google, Microsoft, Google (any company which has devs in China) and is a solved problem. Almost all people don't have physical access to data, and those who do need to go through access reviews to do anything.
    - eddieplan9 6y ago
      Quite the contrary: it’s illegal to not share data with government if requested: > Two pieces of legislation are of particular concern to governments — the 2017 National Intelligence Law and the 2014 Counter-Espionage Law. Article 7 of the first law states that "any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law," adding that the the state "protects" any individual and organization that aids it. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-data-to-china-government-if-asked-experts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-da...
      - amf12 6y ago
        > Quite the contrary: it’s illegal to not share data with government if requested: I see. That's a fair point.
alexmingoia 6y ago
People sharing funny videos on TikTok is not threatening your personal safety. Governments accessing DMs, or whatever data you have in TikTok isn’t a threat to your personal safety. The notion that TikTok is a threat to national security is ridiculous. Truly, “national security” has lost its meaning.
- threeseed 6y ago
  TikTok collects a lot of user data: Geolocation data, including: longitude, latitude, and time zone Device information, including: Android ID, International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI), Address Book Access, Device carrier region, Device region, Device type, Device OS version, Device language, Device connection type, and Mobile network code App information, including: App name https://www.proofpoint.com/au/corporate-blog/post/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores https://www.proofpoint.com/au/corporate-blog/post/understand...
  - rat9988 6y ago
    Should american apps be therefore banned by the other countries? I'm talking about american apps as the issue here is china vs usa, otherwise any other country that produces apps is probably guilty of the same collection.
    - threeseed 6y ago
      1) Most non-Chinese apps are already banned in China. 2) The world trusts US companies because unlike China the US is not a dictatorship, has a functioning, independent judiciary and generally abides by international law. So there is a far greater level of trust there because there are legal mechanisms to prevent breaches.
      - ethbro 6y ago
        > The world trusts US companies because unlike China the US is not a dictatorship, has a functioning, independent judiciary and generally abides by international law. I feel like this always get short shrift in whataboutism discussions. In China, everything is by law in service and subordinate to the Party. In the US, not. That seems like a pretty big difference.

by dx034 6y ago

amf12 6y ago

> Not if this is the only way to protect its citizens. There are other ways, like enacting laws mandating data storage be in the US.

diebeforei485 6y ago
If China-based engineers have access to TikTok's US-based servers, they can still hand over data to the CCP (or be forced to do so). The only way out is to move engineering, SRE, and testing out of China and hard-fork the codebase.
- amf12 6y ago
  > If China-based engineers have access to TikTok's US-based servers, they can still hand over data to the CCP (or be forced to do so). 1. That is illegal. 2. Theoretically this also currently applies to Google, Microsoft, Google (any company which has devs in China) and is a solved problem. Almost all people don't have physical access to data, and those who do need to go through access reviews to do anything.
  - eddieplan9 6y ago
    Quite the contrary: it’s illegal to not share data with government if requested: > Two pieces of legislation are of particular concern to governments — the 2017 National Intelligence Law and the 2014 Counter-Espionage Law. Article 7 of the first law states that "any organization or citizen shall support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work in accordance with the law," adding that the the state "protects" any individual and organization that aids it. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-data-to-china-government-if-asked-experts.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/05/huawei-would-have-to-give-da...
    - amf12 6y ago
      > Quite the contrary: it’s illegal to not share data with government if requested: I see. That's a fair point.

alexmingoia 6y ago

People sharing funny videos on TikTok is not threatening your personal safety. Governments accessing DMs, or whatever data you have in TikTok isn’t a threat to your personal safety. The notion that TikTok is a threat to national security is ridiculous. Truly, “national security” has lost its meaning.

threeseed 6y ago
TikTok collects a lot of user data: Geolocation data, including: longitude, latitude, and time zone Device information, including: Android ID, International Mobile Equipment Identity (IMEI), Address Book Access, Device carrier region, Device region, Device type, Device OS version, Device language, Device connection type, and Mobile network code App information, including: App name https://www.proofpoint.com/au/corporate-blog/post/understanding-information-tiktok-gathers-and-stores https://www.proofpoint.com/au/corporate-blog/post/understand...
- rat9988 6y ago
  Should american apps be therefore banned by the other countries? I'm talking about american apps as the issue here is china vs usa, otherwise any other country that produces apps is probably guilty of the same collection.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    1) Most non-Chinese apps are already banned in China. 2) The world trusts US companies because unlike China the US is not a dictatorship, has a functioning, independent judiciary and generally abides by international law. So there is a far greater level of trust there because there are legal mechanisms to prevent breaches.
    - ethbro 6y ago
      > The world trusts US companies because unlike China the US is not a dictatorship, has a functioning, independent judiciary and generally abides by international law. I feel like this always get short shrift in whataboutism discussions. In China, everything is by law in service and subordinate to the Party. In the US, not. That seems like a pretty big difference.