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/rant For those that dont agree (downvoters), feel free to self host mozilla sync server and for added fun, try to do it on freebsd - then you will understand

by stiray 6y ago

/rant For those that dont agree (downvoters), feel free to self host mozilla sync server and for added fun, try to do it on freebsd - then you will understand my point. For developers on mastadon - I hope you did get my point and will improve this as it might considerably increase your usage base. My biggest problem with all "those" platforms is that I want to have it self hosted. I expect one directory/executable (no, not docker) with everything I need to run it, instead of fishing for different parts all over package managers etc. I will exclude database from this. Or nginx/apache proxy configuration. Same issue as matrix - i would love to run it but what is too much is too much. Maybe once the golang engine is finished, if they dont blew it and make a huge dependency tree for nodejs. I am so sorry but if I proceed with the philosophy that projects have for the deployment, I will run out of storage and spend my whole life just updating packages. Not to mention if I decide to not use it. I think that all complex projects are doing the same mistake for last 20 years: they always ignore the "packing" or the end distribution form that their project will have at the end - a huge number of different blobs with 3rd party dependencies are created and it is just expected that this is trivial for end user to set up and maintain. /rant off

amatecha 6y ago
You might be interested in something like Cabal[0] or Secure Scuttlebutt[1]... Take a look at least, if you haven't heard of them already. Even if you don't dive in, still super interesting regardless! [0] https://cabal.chat/ https://cabal.chat/ [1] https://scuttlebutt.nz/ https://scuttlebutt.nz/
heavenlyblue 6y ago
Do you expect the developers to build twice the backend interfaces to satisfy a single use-case? Now you could say it should be easy, but if it is easy then you could become a maintainer of the implementation.
- asutekku 6y ago
  It’s more of the fact that the approach the devs chose is suboptimal.
lainsoykaf 6y ago
We started doing OTP releases in Pleroma for this reason: https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/installation/otp_en/ https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/installation/otp...
simias 6y ago
I set up Mastodon to give it a try a few months ago and I share your pain, as someone used to old-school unix sysadmin it seems pretty ridiculously complicated and you basically have to input a bunch of docker commands and hope that whatever tutorial you're following doesn't open too many security vulnerabilities. That being said that's just the modern webdev bloated and unoptimized stack. Go fast, break things and if it doesn't work you can probably solve it by adding another layer or three on top of it. We can complaint all we want about it but clearly modern web developers prefer to work with these technologies (and sometimes for very good reasons), it's not like we can force them to do things our way.
piaste 6y ago
You say "no, not docker" but once you wish for "one directory/executable with everything I need to run it" you're halfway to containers already. Why not just go with Docker?

by stiray 6y ago

amatecha 6y ago

You might be interested in something like Cabal[0] or Secure Scuttlebutt[1]... Take a look at least, if you haven't heard of them already. Even if you don't dive in, still super interesting regardless! [0] https://cabal.chat/ https://cabal.chat/ [1] https://scuttlebutt.nz/ https://scuttlebutt.nz/

heavenlyblue 6y ago

Do you expect the developers to build twice the backend interfaces to satisfy a single use-case? Now you could say it should be easy, but if it is easy then you could become a maintainer of the implementation.

asutekku 6y ago
It’s more of the fact that the approach the devs chose is suboptimal.

lainsoykaf 6y ago

We started doing OTP releases in Pleroma for this reason: https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/installation/otp_en/ https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/installation/otp...

simias 6y ago

I set up Mastodon to give it a try a few months ago and I share your pain, as someone used to old-school unix sysadmin it seems pretty ridiculously complicated and you basically have to input a bunch of docker commands and hope that whatever tutorial you're following doesn't open too many security vulnerabilities. That being said that's just the modern webdev bloated and unoptimized stack. Go fast, break things and if it doesn't work you can probably solve it by adding another layer or three on top of it. We can complaint all we want about it but clearly modern web developers prefer to work with these technologies (and sometimes for very good reasons), it's not like we can force them to do things our way.

piaste 6y ago

You say "no, not docker" but once you wish for "one directory/executable with everything I need to run it" you're halfway to containers already. Why not just go with Docker?