5 ms·

United Airlines plans to resume service on more than 25 international routes

22 points by cockpitherald 6y ago

Tepix 6y ago
With the US at 145 new cases of COVID19 per million¹ compared to Germany's 3 new cases per million, perhaps this is somewhat premature. -- ¹ Source: Jonas Nart COVID19 Tableau https://public.tableau.com/profile/jonas.nart#!/vizhome/COVID19_15844962693420/COVID19-TrendTracker https://public.tableau.com/profile/jonas.nart#!/vizhome/COVI...
- bilbo0s 6y ago
  Germany doesn't have to let US travelers in. So if Germany lets them in, that's on Germany in my opinion.
  - 52-6F-62 6y ago
    Surely some of the onus would be on the people and companies ignoring all expert opinion and seeking to travel to other countries while their own struggles with containing the virus continue... Edit: I had to look this up because it sounded strange Germany would go against the EU travel recommendations and openly allow American travellers. They do not: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/cor...
gizmonty 6y ago
Please don’t add any more flights to Australia.
Renaud 6y ago
A pre-departure COVID test should be required for all flights. With the rate of spread in the US, the risk of having infected -and probably asymptomatic- people on board is not negligible. Having to stay in closed quarters, breathing the same air, going to the same toilets, wearing the same mask, with a good portion or people not caring much for all the extra measures and who will probably find ways to defy the order to wear masks properly, well, that doesn't seem a particularly way to fly. A test within 3 days before departure would at least give a chance to temporarily prevent someone from infecting others. Some countries already require the test before entering their borders but as a airline, I would expect that to be enforced before departure, for all flights.
- throwawayiionqz 6y ago
  The next problem is the testing infrastructure. Few labs (if any) do PCR tests with results guaranteed in the next 72h in major US cities. What if test results are late? Should you delay and take the first flight after getting the results? Now the test was taken 4 days or more before the new flight. Should You take another test? Airlines or countries that do not want to welcome travelers without a recent, <72h PCR test should set up the necessary infrastructure in the city of the departure airport.
  - murgindrag 6y ago
    Seems like a perfectly fine way to realign incentives a bit! If you need a recent test result before entering an airport, you'll have airlines screaming to get some of that test infrastructure in place yesterday.
  - bosie 6y ago
    what you described is the problem and responsibility of the individual. i don't see why it should be at the departure airport, that is an unnecessary scaling issue for countries/airlines. make it at the arrival airport, if the traveler doesn't have a valid recent test, he can take it again at the arrival airport + mandatory quarantine (and by that i mean in a nearby facility escorted by police). If you want to travel, it should be your responsibility to not infect everyone else...
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - mnm1 6y ago
    There are tests that come back in 90 minutes now. If the testing infrastructure is not up to par, and it certainly isn't, then people don't fly. Very simple. This isn't a game. I'd hope that we'd have sorted our testing out by now but that looks like it won't be sorted out this year at all and possibly never. If countries don't want coronas coming to them, they should just ban flights from the US. Otherwise, they should accept that they will be infected. Once again, very simple.
mathieuh 6y ago
Big problems in Ireland at the moment with American tourists. I realise it's hearsay and Reddit isn't a great source, but lots of people are complaining that they've seen Americans out and about, who when asked "aren't you quarantining?" have replied that they don't want to quarantine because it would ruin their holiday. Here's an NYT article saying the same: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-americans-break-quarantine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-amer...
- ponker 6y ago
  I mean Europe has to decide between the tourist dollars and the virus. Americans have demonstrated themselves unfit for the challenge of dealing with this virus so anyone who really cares about keeping their country healthy will ban Americans until the US basically lets everyone catch it.
  - PopeDotNinja 6y ago
    As an American who did quarantine in both Spain and the UK, I'm going to disagree with your statement.
    - throwaheyy 6y ago
      Unfortunately, your fellow mask and quarantine non-compliant & self-entitled citizens, putting their own ego above the health of others, disagree with you. In an infectious disease situation, your following the rules is meaningless when many other US citizens seem to think the rules simply don’t apply to them.
    - ponker 6y ago
      An immigration law is a blunt tool. It’s not going to make a clean cut.
- owenmarshall 6y ago
  > Americans [...] have replied that they don't want to quarantine because it would ruin their holiday. The average American vacation lasts for 17 days[1]. A 14 day quarantine would absolutely ruin that. When faced with the complete revision of your plans and the high sunk cost of international travel, human nature is going to take over: "I stayed inside for a day and I feel fine, so..." If there's one thing Covid-19 has demonstrated, asking people to do the right thing fails in aggregate. If a country doesn't want tourists breaking quarantine, they're going to need to mandate it. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/08/28/what-does-america-have-against-vacation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/08/28/what-does-a...
eric4smith 6y ago
As much as I want my friends and family to come visit me here -- i'm very very wary of Americans being allowed to land in Asia at this time. It completely drives me crazy that Americans are so divided about masks. (American here currently in South-East Asia since 2018). As you all know, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan and others have some of the lowest rates of Covid in the world. No one complains about the masks. No one makes a political issue out of it. It's simple -- you can't go into the majority of stores, shopping centers, offices or buildings in any of the cities in these countries. No Karens. No viral videos about people not wanting to wear (or wanting to wear) masks. And the resurgence of Covid-19 is enough to cause the governments to be super-cautious again. People wear them. Cute kids wear them. Old and young people. And we are safe. Very few if any infections or deaths over the last 3 months. Because of the control of the spread, people are more relaxed outdoors and mask use outdoors is around 65% at this point just from looking around. No Covid-19. Enough. About. The. Masks. Already. Wear one. Protect your fellow humans.
- k33n 6y ago
  I personally choose not to wear a mask. I don’t have COVID-19, so there’s no reason for me to wear a mask. There’s no evidence that supports the idea of asymptotic spread, so wearing a mask when you have no COVID symptoms accomplishes nothing.
  - macintux 6y ago
    Even if you ignore all the evidence that there is asymptomatic spread, wearing a mask does provide you some protection from others. And indicates that you place some value on others’ safety. But clearly at this point science and evidence have become matters of personal belief and convenience, which is quite unfortunate.
  - NineStarPoint 6y ago
    The current evidence points to asymptomatic transmission being much less likely than symptomatic transmission. This =/= no evidence that supports asymptotic spread. And that’s ignoring that there are separate studies that think the chance of asymptomatic transmission is much higher, and studies that estimate the majority of transmission is caused by asymptomatic cases. Given the cost of wearing a mask is low and the price of being wrong about the evidence is high, there remains no good reason not to wear a mask.
jeroenhd 6y ago
I hope the EU and other big destinations take action against this to prevent spreading the virus even further now that a large part of Europe is about to get hit with a second wave. The USA can hardly control the spread of the virus inside their own borders, let alone convince people to quarantine. I wouldn't feel very comfortable letting in any tourists from the USA, Brazil or any other country with bad anti-corona measures without an enforced mandatory 14-day quarantine after arrival.

22 points by cockpitherald 6y ago

With the US at 145 new cases of COVID19 per million¹ compared to Germany's 3 new cases per million, perhaps this is somewhat premature. -- ¹ Source: Jonas Nart COVID19 Tableau https://public.tableau.com/profile/jonas.nart#!/vizhome/COVID19_15844962693420/COVID19-TrendTracker https://public.tableau.com/profile/jonas.nart#!/vizhome/COVI...

bilbo0s 6y ago
Germany doesn't have to let US travelers in. So if Germany lets them in, that's on Germany in my opinion.
- 52-6F-62 6y ago
  Surely some of the onus would be on the people and companies ignoring all expert opinion and seeking to travel to other countries while their own struggles with containing the virus continue... Edit: I had to look this up because it sounded strange Germany would go against the EU travel recommendations and openly allow American travellers. They do not: https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/coronavirus https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/en/einreiseundaufenthalt/cor...

gizmonty 6y ago

Please don’t add any more flights to Australia.

Renaud 6y ago

A pre-departure COVID test should be required for all flights. With the rate of spread in the US, the risk of having infected -and probably asymptomatic- people on board is not negligible. Having to stay in closed quarters, breathing the same air, going to the same toilets, wearing the same mask, with a good portion or people not caring much for all the extra measures and who will probably find ways to defy the order to wear masks properly, well, that doesn't seem a particularly way to fly. A test within 3 days before departure would at least give a chance to temporarily prevent someone from infecting others. Some countries already require the test before entering their borders but as a airline, I would expect that to be enforced before departure, for all flights.

throwawayiionqz 6y ago
The next problem is the testing infrastructure. Few labs (if any) do PCR tests with results guaranteed in the next 72h in major US cities. What if test results are late? Should you delay and take the first flight after getting the results? Now the test was taken 4 days or more before the new flight. Should You take another test? Airlines or countries that do not want to welcome travelers without a recent, <72h PCR test should set up the necessary infrastructure in the city of the departure airport.
- murgindrag 6y ago
  Seems like a perfectly fine way to realign incentives a bit! If you need a recent test result before entering an airport, you'll have airlines screaming to get some of that test infrastructure in place yesterday.
- bosie 6y ago
  what you described is the problem and responsibility of the individual. i don't see why it should be at the departure airport, that is an unnecessary scaling issue for countries/airlines. make it at the arrival airport, if the traveler doesn't have a valid recent test, he can take it again at the arrival airport + mandatory quarantine (and by that i mean in a nearby facility escorted by police). If you want to travel, it should be your responsibility to not infect everyone else...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- mnm1 6y ago
  There are tests that come back in 90 minutes now. If the testing infrastructure is not up to par, and it certainly isn't, then people don't fly. Very simple. This isn't a game. I'd hope that we'd have sorted our testing out by now but that looks like it won't be sorted out this year at all and possibly never. If countries don't want coronas coming to them, they should just ban flights from the US. Otherwise, they should accept that they will be infected. Once again, very simple.

mathieuh 6y ago

Big problems in Ireland at the moment with American tourists. I realise it's hearsay and Reddit isn't a great source, but lots of people are complaining that they've seen Americans out and about, who when asked "aren't you quarantining?" have replied that they don't want to quarantine because it would ruin their holiday. Here's an NYT article saying the same: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-americans-break-quarantine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/14/world/europe/Ireland-amer...

ponker 6y ago
I mean Europe has to decide between the tourist dollars and the virus. Americans have demonstrated themselves unfit for the challenge of dealing with this virus so anyone who really cares about keeping their country healthy will ban Americans until the US basically lets everyone catch it.
- PopeDotNinja 6y ago
  As an American who did quarantine in both Spain and the UK, I'm going to disagree with your statement.
  - throwaheyy 6y ago
    Unfortunately, your fellow mask and quarantine non-compliant & self-entitled citizens, putting their own ego above the health of others, disagree with you. In an infectious disease situation, your following the rules is meaningless when many other US citizens seem to think the rules simply don’t apply to them.
  - ponker 6y ago
    An immigration law is a blunt tool. It’s not going to make a clean cut.
owenmarshall 6y ago
> Americans [...] have replied that they don't want to quarantine because it would ruin their holiday. The average American vacation lasts for 17 days[1]. A 14 day quarantine would absolutely ruin that. When faced with the complete revision of your plans and the high sunk cost of international travel, human nature is going to take over: "I stayed inside for a day and I feel fine, so..." If there's one thing Covid-19 has demonstrated, asking people to do the right thing fails in aggregate. If a country doesn't want tourists breaking quarantine, they're going to need to mandate it. [1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/08/28/what-does-america-have-against-vacation/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2019/08/28/what-does-a...

eric4smith 6y ago

As much as I want my friends and family to come visit me here -- i'm very very wary of Americans being allowed to land in Asia at this time. It completely drives me crazy that Americans are so divided about masks. (American here currently in South-East Asia since 2018). As you all know, Thailand, Vietnam, Taiwan and others have some of the lowest rates of Covid in the world. No one complains about the masks. No one makes a political issue out of it. It's simple -- you can't go into the majority of stores, shopping centers, offices or buildings in any of the cities in these countries. No Karens. No viral videos about people not wanting to wear (or wanting to wear) masks. And the resurgence of Covid-19 is enough to cause the governments to be super-cautious again. People wear them. Cute kids wear them. Old and young people. And we are safe. Very few if any infections or deaths over the last 3 months. Because of the control of the spread, people are more relaxed outdoors and mask use outdoors is around 65% at this point just from looking around. No Covid-19. Enough. About. The. Masks. Already. Wear one. Protect your fellow humans.

k33n 6y ago
I personally choose not to wear a mask. I don’t have COVID-19, so there’s no reason for me to wear a mask. There’s no evidence that supports the idea of asymptotic spread, so wearing a mask when you have no COVID symptoms accomplishes nothing.
- macintux 6y ago
  Even if you ignore all the evidence that there is asymptomatic spread, wearing a mask does provide you some protection from others. And indicates that you place some value on others’ safety. But clearly at this point science and evidence have become matters of personal belief and convenience, which is quite unfortunate.
- NineStarPoint 6y ago
  The current evidence points to asymptomatic transmission being much less likely than symptomatic transmission. This =/= no evidence that supports asymptotic spread. And that’s ignoring that there are separate studies that think the chance of asymptomatic transmission is much higher, and studies that estimate the majority of transmission is caused by asymptomatic cases. Given the cost of wearing a mask is low and the price of being wrong about the evidence is high, there remains no good reason not to wear a mask.

jeroenhd 6y ago

I hope the EU and other big destinations take action against this to prevent spreading the virus even further now that a large part of Europe is about to get hit with a second wave. The USA can hardly control the spread of the virus inside their own borders, let alone convince people to quarantine. I wouldn't feel very comfortable letting in any tourists from the USA, Brazil or any other country with bad anti-corona measures without an enforced mandatory 14-day quarantine after arrival.