5 ms·

I'll leave this relevant xkcd comic here: https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/

by CaptArmchair 6y ago

Phrodo_00 6y ago
The difference is it's federated, so the content is available to everyone that wants it it their server.
- zaarn 6y ago
  I mean, that's basically why the comment agrees with what I wrote, I think. You're free to federate with whoever you want and other people are free to federate with you or not. Nobody is forced to listen to what you have to say, it's entirely voluntary. Ie, actual free speech.
  - CaptArmchair 6y ago
    Exactly. I've clarified this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24036190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24036190 The operative word is "force" which tends to translate to threatening harm or violence. At which point, one tends to contest the prerogative of dominant authority which is usually a sovereign nation state. Depending on where you live, this prerogative is legitimized through a democratically elected mandate and codified in a constitution. This principle sanctions a state to prosecute private citizens exerting violence against each other over differing opinions, beliefs and so on in front of a court of law (separation of powers!) The 1st amendment is the cornerstone, in that it protects private citizens from that same legitimate authority trying to curtail freedom of speech by passing laws that do so, or by sanctioning violence against people who hold particular opinions. ... which is why I posted the cartoon. The 1st amendment doesn't shield anyone from criticism, feedback or being ignored by others. If Mastodon instances block or blacklist each other, the principle of free speech wasn't violated. What really happened is different groups of private individuals deciding to stop listening or acknowledging other groups of individuals. Is this a morally right or even healthy thing to do? That's highly debatable, depends heavily on the context and who you're talking to and I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Your mileage may vary, as is always when confronted with murky human behaviour.
slightwinder 6y ago
How sad that people really believe that.
- zaarn 6y ago
  All this says is that you can't force people to listen to your speech. If you disagree, the only other option is to force people to listen, which is just fascism.
  - slightwinder 6y ago
    It says a significant bit more. Not even seeing this is a symptom I guess.
  - ekianjo 6y ago
    > All this says is that you can't force people to listen to your speech. Erm, no, this comic explicitly says it's OK to be kicked off a platform for the things you say. Which is essentially mob-rule, or an arbitrary rule a community can invent on the spot to justify kicking you out. That's what you call authoritarian when someone/groups makes a decision to censor you on the basis of you having a different opinion.
    - zaarn 6y ago
      In mastodon the individual platforms are run by individual administrators, who decide what is permissible and what not. You can't force them to have to list or federate with your instance just like you can't force someone to listen to what you have to say. It's not authoritarian, it's free speech as a principle. You can say what you want and everyone who is willing can listen. Everyone else doesn't have to listen. That is free speech. You aren't kicked of the platform, you can still be part of the fediverse, in fact, there is plenty of instance that are willing to uphold the "no moderation free speech" fake principle to host trolls and alt-right who federate with everything that is legal.
      - ekianjo 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

I'll leave this relevant xkcd comic here: https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/

Phrodo_00 6y ago

The difference is it's federated, so the content is available to everyone that wants it it their server.

zaarn 6y ago
I mean, that's basically why the comment agrees with what I wrote, I think. You're free to federate with whoever you want and other people are free to federate with you or not. Nobody is forced to listen to what you have to say, it's entirely voluntary. Ie, actual free speech.
- CaptArmchair 6y ago
  Exactly. I've clarified this here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24036190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24036190 The operative word is "force" which tends to translate to threatening harm or violence. At which point, one tends to contest the prerogative of dominant authority which is usually a sovereign nation state. Depending on where you live, this prerogative is legitimized through a democratically elected mandate and codified in a constitution. This principle sanctions a state to prosecute private citizens exerting violence against each other over differing opinions, beliefs and so on in front of a court of law (separation of powers!) The 1st amendment is the cornerstone, in that it protects private citizens from that same legitimate authority trying to curtail freedom of speech by passing laws that do so, or by sanctioning violence against people who hold particular opinions. ... which is why I posted the cartoon. The 1st amendment doesn't shield anyone from criticism, feedback or being ignored by others. If Mastodon instances block or blacklist each other, the principle of free speech wasn't violated. What really happened is different groups of private individuals deciding to stop listening or acknowledging other groups of individuals. Is this a morally right or even healthy thing to do? That's highly debatable, depends heavily on the context and who you're talking to and I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to this question. Your mileage may vary, as is always when confronted with murky human behaviour.

slightwinder 6y ago

How sad that people really believe that.

zaarn 6y ago
All this says is that you can't force people to listen to your speech. If you disagree, the only other option is to force people to listen, which is just fascism.
- slightwinder 6y ago
  It says a significant bit more. Not even seeing this is a symptom I guess.
- ekianjo 6y ago
  > All this says is that you can't force people to listen to your speech. Erm, no, this comic explicitly says it's OK to be kicked off a platform for the things you say. Which is essentially mob-rule, or an arbitrary rule a community can invent on the spot to justify kicking you out. That's what you call authoritarian when someone/groups makes a decision to censor you on the basis of you having a different opinion.
  - zaarn 6y ago
    In mastodon the individual platforms are run by individual administrators, who decide what is permissible and what not. You can't force them to have to list or federate with your instance just like you can't force someone to listen to what you have to say. It's not authoritarian, it's free speech as a principle. You can say what you want and everyone who is willing can listen. Everyone else doesn't have to listen. That is free speech. You aren't kicked of the platform, you can still be part of the fediverse, in fact, there is plenty of instance that are willing to uphold the "no moderation free speech" fake principle to host trolls and alt-right who federate with everything that is legal.
    - ekianjo 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]