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They deserved it, and I'm pleased with their results. When I started my paid online editor for Tailwind CSS ( https://tailwind.build https://tailwind.build ) i

by kemyd 6y ago

They deserved it, and I'm pleased with their results. When I started my paid online editor for Tailwind CSS ( https://tailwind.build https://tailwind.build ) in November 2019, and someone posted a link to my Show HN on Discord, Adam replied: "bums me out when other people get stuff released using my tools before me because i have to invest so much time into building the actual OSS its all built on :/" And this ruined my happy launch day :) When I read that they make much more money, I am again in an emotionally neutral state ;) Congratulations!

hnarn 6y ago
> "bums me out when other people get stuff released using my tools before me because i have to invest so much time into building the actual OSS its all built on :/" This seems like such a destructive approach to software development, and especially open source. It seems pretty obvious that having additional tooling will only boost the popularity of the original project.
- SirHound 6y ago
  Yep. How much OSS did they leverage to build Tailwind UI?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- johnnujler 6y ago
  FWIW, I don’t think it is destructive, in fact, it is a reformative approach i.e., after all we are human beings, not sages and saints, and the real value lies in being able to do it despite knowing your flaws as a human being, and the “congratulations” from OP is an evidence that they realise it is a part and parcel of life. It takes time to digest the fact that someone has progressed far ahead of you using your tool and when your mind is clouded, you don’t immediately think about how that is a net good.
  - hnarn 6y ago
    Speaking without thinking is something I can understand, but it's not an excuse. Nobody is an island, we're all standing on the shoulders of giants, and disparaging another's work when they're arguably helping improve your own project is an attitude I wouldn't expect in an OSS project. As someone else said, if this is the way the author felt about Tailwind, they could have chosen a proprietary license, or just left it without a license to fall back on regular copyright. What happens a lot of the time is that authors choose open source licenses because they know that's how their project will attract attention. I'm not saying that's necessarily what happened in this case, but it's not uncommon to see authors of some OSS projects seemingly being surprised about how OSS works or what the mentality is expected to be in the project.
    - johnnujler 6y ago
      All true! But to invoke a common ground here, most people put up a lenient license in the beginning thinking I will attract some attention and if things pick up I will create a product(or some serious library) out of it, make money, while leaving the core as is. But when it surprises them they are not ready for it(which is pretty much all of us). In fact, if I were to guess the OP would have just dropped the original project if it were not for the pacing provided by the Tailwind CSS team. The thing is for most of us personal projects are a way to express our autonomy where you do what you like and want instead of being constrained by some guy telling what you can do, which tools you can use, what features should go in etc, which is the case with most jobs; this autonomy allows you to walk away from your project any time and when that autonomy is played with by anyone who you did not originally see as an ally it can be upsetting. Tbh, it would be naive to think that OSS is still an altruistic movement, maybe some still go by that, but the commoditisation with GitHub becoming your Resume has only made it a more selfish endeavour. Actually I agree with you and it doesn’t make sense to rant and pity oneself on the Internet, but I think this is a natural consequence of what is being made of OSS in general.
biggestlou 6y ago
Yeah, that really feels like the exact wrong attitude to have. If you don't want people to build money-making products on top of your OSS, either license it that way or make it closed source. Period. I don't see any reasonable grounds for complaint here.
- wilsonrocks 6y ago
  Isn't he just describing his emotional response though? I think it's valid to be annoyed about something you specifically allow in your license... So long as you don't try to stop it?
- adamwathan 6y ago
  This isn’t really what I was saying when I made that comment (in a personal conversation among a small group of friends). I love that other people are building things on top of Tailwind and I think it’s great. I was only describing my own emotional state and how much pressure it makes me personally feel to finish our commercial projects, and how stressful it is to feel like there’s not enough time because my time has to be split instead of being able to just focus on the commercial tools. Purely just me commenting on my own stress and being vulnerable among friends, not any sort of commentary on the ethics of other people building things on my OSS.
- madeofpalk 6y ago
  > If you don't want people to build money-making products on top of your OSS there's a middle ground. You can be "bummed out" by some of the side effects of say OSS, but also appreciate other positive things about it?
kemyd 6y ago
I think you draw too many negative conclusions from this one comment :) I wrote "ruined my launch day" because I understood him. He (& team) worked on their premium (paid) project at the same time but couldn't release it because they had a lot to do to maintain the main project. This is a good thing, right? You want to use technology where authors will not sacrifice quality. It didn't ruin the launch in any other way. My Show HN had ~300 upvotes and #2 Product of the Day on Product Hunt, so pretty good results thanks to the technology & community that Adam created!
nsonha 6y ago
Im pretty sure this won't last long. If tailwind doesn't involve a made up dsl geared toward saving keystrokes but a low-maintenance syntax that is either proper css/sass or css programatic api, then I would give it some benefit of doubt. You can achieve the convenience of taildwind with plenty of css in js libraries and not make an utterly unreadable un-composable UI component library. Libraries like this basically exploit the "stick to the platform" mentality in which developers rather accept a poor methodology than a proper one that deviates from the "web platform"
jtagen 6y ago
I'm a recent convert to Tailwind, like your builder a lot. Any chance you can/will integrate the TailwindUI components for those that have purchased them? For me, that would be killer for quick mock-ups and starting points.
- jtagen 6y ago
  Yeah, didn't read far enough down the page. I'm excited!
- iKlsR 6y ago
  Checkout https://mertjf.github.io/tailblocks/ https://mertjf.github.io/tailblocks/
  - httgp 6y ago
    Oh wow, thanks for this, this looks great!

by kemyd 6y ago

hnarn 6y ago

> "bums me out when other people get stuff released using my tools before me because i have to invest so much time into building the actual OSS its all built on :/" This seems like such a destructive approach to software development, and especially open source. It seems pretty obvious that having additional tooling will only boost the popularity of the original project.

SirHound 6y ago
Yep. How much OSS did they leverage to build Tailwind UI?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
johnnujler 6y ago
FWIW, I don’t think it is destructive, in fact, it is a reformative approach i.e., after all we are human beings, not sages and saints, and the real value lies in being able to do it despite knowing your flaws as a human being, and the “congratulations” from OP is an evidence that they realise it is a part and parcel of life. It takes time to digest the fact that someone has progressed far ahead of you using your tool and when your mind is clouded, you don’t immediately think about how that is a net good.
- hnarn 6y ago
  Speaking without thinking is something I can understand, but it's not an excuse. Nobody is an island, we're all standing on the shoulders of giants, and disparaging another's work when they're arguably helping improve your own project is an attitude I wouldn't expect in an OSS project. As someone else said, if this is the way the author felt about Tailwind, they could have chosen a proprietary license, or just left it without a license to fall back on regular copyright. What happens a lot of the time is that authors choose open source licenses because they know that's how their project will attract attention. I'm not saying that's necessarily what happened in this case, but it's not uncommon to see authors of some OSS projects seemingly being surprised about how OSS works or what the mentality is expected to be in the project.
  - johnnujler 6y ago
    All true! But to invoke a common ground here, most people put up a lenient license in the beginning thinking I will attract some attention and if things pick up I will create a product(or some serious library) out of it, make money, while leaving the core as is. But when it surprises them they are not ready for it(which is pretty much all of us). In fact, if I were to guess the OP would have just dropped the original project if it were not for the pacing provided by the Tailwind CSS team. The thing is for most of us personal projects are a way to express our autonomy where you do what you like and want instead of being constrained by some guy telling what you can do, which tools you can use, what features should go in etc, which is the case with most jobs; this autonomy allows you to walk away from your project any time and when that autonomy is played with by anyone who you did not originally see as an ally it can be upsetting. Tbh, it would be naive to think that OSS is still an altruistic movement, maybe some still go by that, but the commoditisation with GitHub becoming your Resume has only made it a more selfish endeavour. Actually I agree with you and it doesn’t make sense to rant and pity oneself on the Internet, but I think this is a natural consequence of what is being made of OSS in general.

biggestlou 6y ago

Yeah, that really feels like the exact wrong attitude to have. If you don't want people to build money-making products on top of your OSS, either license it that way or make it closed source. Period. I don't see any reasonable grounds for complaint here.

wilsonrocks 6y ago
Isn't he just describing his emotional response though? I think it's valid to be annoyed about something you specifically allow in your license... So long as you don't try to stop it?
adamwathan 6y ago
This isn’t really what I was saying when I made that comment (in a personal conversation among a small group of friends). I love that other people are building things on top of Tailwind and I think it’s great. I was only describing my own emotional state and how much pressure it makes me personally feel to finish our commercial projects, and how stressful it is to feel like there’s not enough time because my time has to be split instead of being able to just focus on the commercial tools. Purely just me commenting on my own stress and being vulnerable among friends, not any sort of commentary on the ethics of other people building things on my OSS.
madeofpalk 6y ago
> If you don't want people to build money-making products on top of your OSS there's a middle ground. You can be "bummed out" by some of the side effects of say OSS, but also appreciate other positive things about it?

kemyd 6y ago

I think you draw too many negative conclusions from this one comment :) I wrote "ruined my launch day" because I understood him. He (& team) worked on their premium (paid) project at the same time but couldn't release it because they had a lot to do to maintain the main project. This is a good thing, right? You want to use technology where authors will not sacrifice quality. It didn't ruin the launch in any other way. My Show HN had ~300 upvotes and #2 Product of the Day on Product Hunt, so pretty good results thanks to the technology & community that Adam created!

nsonha 6y ago

Im pretty sure this won't last long. If tailwind doesn't involve a made up dsl geared toward saving keystrokes but a low-maintenance syntax that is either proper css/sass or css programatic api, then I would give it some benefit of doubt. You can achieve the convenience of taildwind with plenty of css in js libraries and not make an utterly unreadable un-composable UI component library. Libraries like this basically exploit the "stick to the platform" mentality in which developers rather accept a poor methodology than a proper one that deviates from the "web platform"

jtagen 6y ago

I'm a recent convert to Tailwind, like your builder a lot. Any chance you can/will integrate the TailwindUI components for those that have purchased them? For me, that would be killer for quick mock-ups and starting points.

jtagen 6y ago
Yeah, didn't read far enough down the page. I'm excited!
iKlsR 6y ago
Checkout https://mertjf.github.io/tailblocks/ https://mertjf.github.io/tailblocks/
- httgp 6y ago
  Oh wow, thanks for this, this looks great!