4 ms·

This is stupidly dangerous for the people on those boats, and they probably don't realize it. Crew Dragon is basically unexploded ordnance with a helping of gas

by gpm 6y ago

This is stupidly dangerous for the people on those boats, and they probably don't realize it. Crew Dragon is basically unexploded ordnance with a helping of gasses toxic at the PPM level. Everything went right today, and they broke out the oxygen tanks and masks because there was too much toxic gas in the air. It is highly irresponsible to allow them close. They're more than welcome to assemble in international waters, so long as they don't do so right beside the explosive device. This is not a private mission, this is a mission executed by the US government, who happened to subcontract out the vehicle to a private company. Hence why the government would reasonably be expected to pay for (directly, or indirectly as part of their contract) the security. Regardless of who pays for the security, the government (US and otherwise) frequently provides security, that's because they have a monopoly on the use of force. Consider, for example, how oversized loads on highways are frequently escorted by police (dependent on local laws).

eric_b 6y ago
Two things 1) The capsule is not that dangerous. The SpaceX recovery crew was wearing cloth masks and short sleeves when it was hoisted on to the recovery boat. Sure, there were some toxic fumes, but if the recovery workers who are trained and know what they're doing can be within inches of it not wearing PPE, I think some dudes on a boat can be 20m away. 2) I'm mainly playing devils advocate. I have no problem with the military running security. I was more trying to show that the there is no rational way to reconcile the beliefs of the police defunders who ALSO want the military to step in, in this case.
- justanotherhn 6y ago
  "police defunders" What? who said anything about the police??
  - eric_b 6y ago
    On HN the majority opinion is to "defund the police", at least from what I've seen. Overwhelmingly so. The majority opinion on this thread seems to be that the people in boats who went to see the splashdown up close were idiots, and military intervention is the way to fix it next time. My point is that the majority opinion on HN in regards to police/military engagement is at odds with the majority opinion on this thread.
    - spoopyskelly 6y ago
      Fascism is OK as long as it used against your "enemies".
    - jessaustin 6y ago
      It is a little weird to imagine solving the problem of boaters possible exposure to MMH/NTO, by shooting the boaters.
      - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > shooting the boaters Straw man [1]. The Coast Guard would be expected to deter, ticket and, in the most extreme circumstances, disable craft. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
        jessaustin 6y ago
        This whole discussion is straw. The dude piddling around with the hatch on deck wasn't wearing anything for at least forty minutes, then he wore an oxygen mask for about ten minutes. Presumably the "deadly gas" was released during that time. He was touching the capsule. None of the boaters got within a boat length, and they backed off when requested. In future the pickup crew should just make that request earlier. Or, who knows, maybe they made the request exactly when they wanted to? Most of the whinging about boaters ITT is sour grapes from people who don't have the imagination or resources to do what the boaters did. The rest is some sort of fixation with Trump.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > the "deadly gas" was released during that time MMH is not vented on landing. When it’s released, it’s because of a mistake. That’s why the approaching crew take the precautions they do, and don a gas mask when toying with the craft. Nothing bad happened to these boaters. But they were downwind from a substance which, had it leaked, would have put every one of them in the hospital and taken decades off their lives.
- MPSimmons 6y ago
  > The capsule is not that dangerous You have no idea what you are talking about.
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > The capsule is not that dangerous It’s SUPER dangerous. Crew Dragon’s SuperDraco engines burn hydrazine [1]. Hydrazine is “is toxic and carcinogenic in small amounts“ [2]. [1] https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/23/spacex-releases-preliminary-results-from-crew-dragon-abort-test/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/23/spacex-releases-prelim... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomethylhydrazine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomethylhydrazine
jessaustin 6y ago
Consider, for example, how oversized loads on highways are frequently escorted by police (dependent on local laws). This seems less common recently. Those giant tubes that I assume are the bottom section of wind masts are all over the road recently, and I never see any police. Someone ought to write some tickets on the people who are afraid to pass with a 7.5' car in a 12'-wide lane when a load is hanging 1' over the lane, 7.5' off the ground...

by gpm 6y ago

eric_b 6y ago

Two things 1) The capsule is not that dangerous. The SpaceX recovery crew was wearing cloth masks and short sleeves when it was hoisted on to the recovery boat. Sure, there were some toxic fumes, but if the recovery workers who are trained and know what they're doing can be within inches of it not wearing PPE, I think some dudes on a boat can be 20m away. 2) I'm mainly playing devils advocate. I have no problem with the military running security. I was more trying to show that the there is no rational way to reconcile the beliefs of the police defunders who ALSO want the military to step in, in this case.

justanotherhn 6y ago
"police defunders" What? who said anything about the police??
- eric_b 6y ago
  On HN the majority opinion is to "defund the police", at least from what I've seen. Overwhelmingly so. The majority opinion on this thread seems to be that the people in boats who went to see the splashdown up close were idiots, and military intervention is the way to fix it next time. My point is that the majority opinion on HN in regards to police/military engagement is at odds with the majority opinion on this thread.
  - spoopyskelly 6y ago
    Fascism is OK as long as it used against your "enemies".
  - jessaustin 6y ago
    It is a little weird to imagine solving the problem of boaters possible exposure to MMH/NTO, by shooting the boaters.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > shooting the boaters Straw man [1]. The Coast Guard would be expected to deter, ticket and, in the most extreme circumstances, disable craft. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
      - jessaustin 6y ago
        This whole discussion is straw. The dude piddling around with the hatch on deck wasn't wearing anything for at least forty minutes, then he wore an oxygen mask for about ten minutes. Presumably the "deadly gas" was released during that time. He was touching the capsule. None of the boaters got within a boat length, and they backed off when requested. In future the pickup crew should just make that request earlier. Or, who knows, maybe they made the request exactly when they wanted to? Most of the whinging about boaters ITT is sour grapes from people who don't have the imagination or resources to do what the boaters did. The rest is some sort of fixation with Trump.
        JumpCrisscross 6y ago
        > the "deadly gas" was released during that time MMH is not vented on landing. When it’s released, it’s because of a mistake. That’s why the approaching crew take the precautions they do, and don a gas mask when toying with the craft. Nothing bad happened to these boaters. But they were downwind from a substance which, had it leaked, would have put every one of them in the hospital and taken decades off their lives.
MPSimmons 6y ago
> The capsule is not that dangerous You have no idea what you are talking about.
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> The capsule is not that dangerous It’s SUPER dangerous. Crew Dragon’s SuperDraco engines burn hydrazine [1]. Hydrazine is “is toxic and carcinogenic in small amounts“ [2]. [1] https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/23/spacex-releases-preliminary-results-from-crew-dragon-abort-test/ https://spaceflightnow.com/2020/01/23/spacex-releases-prelim... [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomethylhydrazine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomethylhydrazine

jessaustin 6y ago

Consider, for example, how oversized loads on highways are frequently escorted by police (dependent on local laws). This seems less common recently. Those giant tubes that I assume are the bottom section of wind masts are all over the road recently, and I never see any police. Someone ought to write some tickets on the people who are afraid to pass with a 7.5' car in a 12'-wide lane when a load is hanging 1' over the lane, 7.5' off the ground...