4 ms·

Probably going against the grain here, but that was spot-on. PG's analysis of NYC in that article made me wince, especially that nonsense about restaurants and

Probably going against the grain here, but that was spot-on. PG's analysis of NYC in that article made me wince, especially that nonsense about restaurants and jackets. I also snorted at the notion that NYC is all about money. It is such a large and diverse city that I find it difficult to suggest that it is all about ANY one thing.

tstegart 18y ago
Maybe its not all about money, but its definitely more about money. Coming from Wisconsin and working in Manhattan, I find my midwestern frugalness is completely alien to people. Time is money here, there is no doubt about it. Walking three blocks and taking a subway ride gets thrown out the window in favor of a $20 cab ride. Its the small stuff but it adds up. When a city suffers a shortage of BMWs after Wall Street bonuses come out, its hard to say its not about money.
- byrneseyeview 18y ago
  Maybe it's a Manhattan thing. I live in Brooklyn, and I encounter some awesomely frugal people. Also, it may be an Alchian-Allen thing: if you're paying a fixed cost just to live in the city, luxury is comparably less of an indulgence. See: http://www.nationalpost.com/loveandsex/story.html?id=296085 http://www.nationalpost.com/loveandsex/story.html?id=296085
- wallflower 18y ago
  In NYC, they have laws that a renter must earn an annual income that is 52x the monthly rent to qualify to rent the apartment (yes, subletting from someone is one way around it). In NYC, a 1BR apartment that you live in by yourself is a status symbol. The average monthly rent is north of $2,500. Spending $2k+ on rent just to live in the city, maybe that's more about ego than it is about money..
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - aditya 18y ago
    Maybe that's the reason a lot of startup action is happening in Brooklyn, where all the cool designer types and hackers are moving to. The rent is lower and the people are just nicer, in DUMBO where our startup is based there's atleast 5 other startups in a 10 block radius. Which, while not SoMa is still pretty good :)
    - itsandrew 18y ago
      I live in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) and I know there is a lot of start-up activity around me as well. It's easy to build a web app, but building a beautiful web app requires some incredibly artistic and design-conscious people which I think NYC (and especially Brooklyn) are chock full of.
      - tstegart 18y ago
        hmm.. like painters I suppose...
        itsandrew 18y ago
        Or people that know Adobe...
    - tstegart 18y ago
      Brooklyn has some rocking art stuff going on and some sweet industrial designers. Some of the stuff on Etsy from people there is just crazy good.
  - jawngee 18y ago
    There's no such law, it's a general guideline that it be between 42-52 times the rent. Which makes a ton of sense to me. While rent is "extreme" for people who don't live here, you should also consider that we generally don't have the same expenses as people in the burbs or elsewhere. We don't own cars, we don't buy gas, etc. That right there knocks $500-750 off your living expenses. Furthermore, you need to consider rent in NYC as a culture tax because no where else in the world will you find anything remotely similar in terms of fashion, design, art, food, etc. You might think you're approximating it with the Olive Garden in suburbia, but you aren't even close. PS. I pay $2550 for a 3 bedroom with a backyard in the second nicest neighborhood in Brooklyn.
    - wallflower 18y ago
      Thanks. Good to hear 52x is not a law. But it is a very good rule of thumb for rent affordability. I think NYC is also much more diverse than other cosmopolitan cities because of their successful rent stabilization policies. Re: Olive Garden - I escaped the suburbs to live in a major city but it doesn't compare to NYC of course. Where else will you have 5k restaurants and night-life at 3am (Paris, maybe..) I go up to NYC quite often because I have family there. I was in Brooklyn recently. Nice to hear that there is a startup scene there. Saw lots of new loft construction going up everywhere near Grand. Sadly the Brooklyn Brewery was closed. BTW - Highly recommend Lily Thai (restaurant) "The Housing Virgins of NYC" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/garden/24new.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/G/Green,%20Penelope&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/garden/24new.html?_r=1&#38... Rent-stabilization on the UWS [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama].
  - caveman82 18y ago
    So you are assuming most ppl who live in NYC live in an apartment with an elevator and a security guard, on the upper east side/midtown/chelsea. Unless you are running in finance and high-society circles, no one gives a crap that you live in an apartment that costs over $2500/month. If one is resourceful(and most starving artists/actors/entrepreneurs are) you can find apartment shares in plenty of neighborhoods for under $800/month. It's not luxurious but living in those circumstances is no less worthwhile.
  - tofocsend 18y ago
    >maybe that's more about ego than it is about money I would say it's about being willing to pay a premium to live in a dense, vibrant city with all that goes along with it.
pg 18y ago
I find it difficult to suggest that it is all about ANY one thing. From the essay: "There are other messages too, of course. You should be hipper. You should be better looking. But the clearest message is that you should be richer."

tstegart 18y ago

Maybe its not all about money, but its definitely more about money. Coming from Wisconsin and working in Manhattan, I find my midwestern frugalness is completely alien to people. Time is money here, there is no doubt about it. Walking three blocks and taking a subway ride gets thrown out the window in favor of a $20 cab ride. Its the small stuff but it adds up. When a city suffers a shortage of BMWs after Wall Street bonuses come out, its hard to say its not about money.

byrneseyeview 18y ago
Maybe it's a Manhattan thing. I live in Brooklyn, and I encounter some awesomely frugal people. Also, it may be an Alchian-Allen thing: if you're paying a fixed cost just to live in the city, luxury is comparably less of an indulgence. See: http://www.nationalpost.com/loveandsex/story.html?id=296085 http://www.nationalpost.com/loveandsex/story.html?id=296085
wallflower 18y ago
In NYC, they have laws that a renter must earn an annual income that is 52x the monthly rent to qualify to rent the apartment (yes, subletting from someone is one way around it). In NYC, a 1BR apartment that you live in by yourself is a status symbol. The average monthly rent is north of $2,500. Spending $2k+ on rent just to live in the city, maybe that's more about ego than it is about money..
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
- aditya 18y ago
  Maybe that's the reason a lot of startup action is happening in Brooklyn, where all the cool designer types and hackers are moving to. The rent is lower and the people are just nicer, in DUMBO where our startup is based there's atleast 5 other startups in a 10 block radius. Which, while not SoMa is still pretty good :)
  - itsandrew 18y ago
    I live in Brooklyn (Williamsburg) and I know there is a lot of start-up activity around me as well. It's easy to build a web app, but building a beautiful web app requires some incredibly artistic and design-conscious people which I think NYC (and especially Brooklyn) are chock full of.
    - tstegart 18y ago
      hmm.. like painters I suppose...
      - itsandrew 18y ago
        Or people that know Adobe...
  - tstegart 18y ago
    Brooklyn has some rocking art stuff going on and some sweet industrial designers. Some of the stuff on Etsy from people there is just crazy good.
- jawngee 18y ago
  There's no such law, it's a general guideline that it be between 42-52 times the rent. Which makes a ton of sense to me. While rent is "extreme" for people who don't live here, you should also consider that we generally don't have the same expenses as people in the burbs or elsewhere. We don't own cars, we don't buy gas, etc. That right there knocks $500-750 off your living expenses. Furthermore, you need to consider rent in NYC as a culture tax because no where else in the world will you find anything remotely similar in terms of fashion, design, art, food, etc. You might think you're approximating it with the Olive Garden in suburbia, but you aren't even close. PS. I pay $2550 for a 3 bedroom with a backyard in the second nicest neighborhood in Brooklyn.
  - wallflower 18y ago
    Thanks. Good to hear 52x is not a law. But it is a very good rule of thumb for rent affordability. I think NYC is also much more diverse than other cosmopolitan cities because of their successful rent stabilization policies. Re: Olive Garden - I escaped the suburbs to live in a major city but it doesn't compare to NYC of course. Where else will you have 5k restaurants and night-life at 3am (Paris, maybe..) I go up to NYC quite often because I have family there. I was in Brooklyn recently. Nice to hear that there is a startup scene there. Saw lots of new loft construction going up everywhere near Grand. Sadly the Brooklyn Brewery was closed. BTW - Highly recommend Lily Thai (restaurant) "The Housing Virgins of NYC" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/garden/24new.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/G/Green,%20Penelope&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/24/garden/24new.html?_r=1&#38... Rent-stabilization on the UWS [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitchell-Lama].
- caveman82 18y ago
  So you are assuming most ppl who live in NYC live in an apartment with an elevator and a security guard, on the upper east side/midtown/chelsea. Unless you are running in finance and high-society circles, no one gives a crap that you live in an apartment that costs over $2500/month. If one is resourceful(and most starving artists/actors/entrepreneurs are) you can find apartment shares in plenty of neighborhoods for under $800/month. It's not luxurious but living in those circumstances is no less worthwhile.
- tofocsend 18y ago
  >maybe that's more about ego than it is about money I would say it's about being willing to pay a premium to live in a dense, vibrant city with all that goes along with it.

pg 18y ago

I find it difficult to suggest that it is all about ANY one thing. From the essay: "There are other messages too, of course. You should be hipper. You should be better looking. But the clearest message is that you should be richer."