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I skimmed the desired qualities, the review of current tools, and finally the software centric approach to achieving the stated goals. While we can reasonably

I skimmed the desired qualities, the review of current tools, and finally the software centric approach to achieving the stated goals. While we can reasonably expect software elements in any proposed solution, the hardware and physical elements of distributed computing may provide a far simpler pathway and likely will permit much greater reuse of existing proven software approaches. For example, all future multi-unit residences could come with 'data center' along with the boiler, or possibly the actual units will host this equipment along with their air conditioning units. All your cloud apps can now point to this cloud. I don't see any fundamental reason why 'data center' can not become a modular utility unit, coming in domicile, commercial, and industry grade flavors. In my view, the pure software solution approach to the 'modern informaton society' has implicit political dimensions. One of these is the concentrated private ownership and control over physical resources which are now a required substrate of modern society. I for one am not ready to accept that as 'acceptable'.

ozim 6y ago
There is whole bunch of reasons and that bunch of reasons has name IoT. I mean that security of such utility units would be roughly what we already see with current breed of IoT devices. To keep some kind of quality level of such devices there would have to be one big company that produces them, which does not solve the problem. If you look at IoT devices manufacturers now there is so much crap floating around because there are so many of them. I don't think it is "evil corporations concentrating power" it is more "normal people have better things to do". If you are plumber you want to spend time fixing pipes not setting up your homepage. Putting some ad on Facebook for a plumber is perfect solution.
- eternalban 6y ago
  You can not possibly compare IoT -- I work in the space -- and server as utility appliances. IoT is designed to work in extreme edge conditions: low power; intermittent connectivity; constrained local storage; limitations on embedded code, etc. Further, there is currently NO financial incentive for anyone to tackle the issues necessary to take these bits of technology and make it 'home' techonlogy. We've done this for all sorts of things, including controlled combustion in the basement for heating. You also have two strawmen here that you attack: 1 - I did not say anything about the "evil" of corporations. Simply that it is not acceptable. 2 - A "normal" person in a modern multi-residence is hardly bothered with "fixing the boiler", or "the network connection", or "the fire alarm system", any other utility tech. If you are asserting that this is "impossible" for "networking and hosting" (!!) please make the case. The solution space is fairly permissive, with various business models to consider. It should definitely be explored.
  - ozim 6y ago
    Main point is not about IoT, it is about how many vendors would be needed to provide plurality in the market. With multiple vendors quality will be low. If we go the other way around so for example we take Synology and Qnap to provide solutions for this it will be not much different than FB and Google owning all the data. Those companies have know how to do "server appliances" but then they will basically have an ownership of software and hardware and updates for those. Which in the end achieves nothing because what is the point of having local servers running proprietary hardware and software when you have the same currently, only that servers are somewhere else.
    - eternalban 6y ago
      The barrier to entry is much lower on the edge side. The end result you predict is certainly possible, but only if elect to sleep through this phase like we did in the past 20 years and trust in Googles of the world. Even if a whole slew of crap products lead the gen 1, the societal mindshift on its own is worth the effort, imo.
sukilot 6y ago
What's the point of putting an amateur-run data center in every apartment building instead of using a proper one in town? Or instead of just putting it in my unit (with off-site backup of course), since a personal data center is just a single computer? My landlord can barely run the water and A/C; no way they can run IT. The improved quality and reliability is worth it for the trivial latency cost.
- eternalban 6y ago
  You are assuming the only possible solutions require user maintenance. However, your implicit point regarding income level and the range in quality of building management is valid, and successful products in this space would address it.

ozim 6y ago

There is whole bunch of reasons and that bunch of reasons has name IoT. I mean that security of such utility units would be roughly what we already see with current breed of IoT devices. To keep some kind of quality level of such devices there would have to be one big company that produces them, which does not solve the problem. If you look at IoT devices manufacturers now there is so much crap floating around because there are so many of them. I don't think it is "evil corporations concentrating power" it is more "normal people have better things to do". If you are plumber you want to spend time fixing pipes not setting up your homepage. Putting some ad on Facebook for a plumber is perfect solution.

eternalban 6y ago
You can not possibly compare IoT -- I work in the space -- and server as utility appliances. IoT is designed to work in extreme edge conditions: low power; intermittent connectivity; constrained local storage; limitations on embedded code, etc. Further, there is currently NO financial incentive for anyone to tackle the issues necessary to take these bits of technology and make it 'home' techonlogy. We've done this for all sorts of things, including controlled combustion in the basement for heating. You also have two strawmen here that you attack: 1 - I did not say anything about the "evil" of corporations. Simply that it is not acceptable. 2 - A "normal" person in a modern multi-residence is hardly bothered with "fixing the boiler", or "the network connection", or "the fire alarm system", any other utility tech. If you are asserting that this is "impossible" for "networking and hosting" (!!) please make the case. The solution space is fairly permissive, with various business models to consider. It should definitely be explored.
- ozim 6y ago
  Main point is not about IoT, it is about how many vendors would be needed to provide plurality in the market. With multiple vendors quality will be low. If we go the other way around so for example we take Synology and Qnap to provide solutions for this it will be not much different than FB and Google owning all the data. Those companies have know how to do "server appliances" but then they will basically have an ownership of software and hardware and updates for those. Which in the end achieves nothing because what is the point of having local servers running proprietary hardware and software when you have the same currently, only that servers are somewhere else.
  - eternalban 6y ago
    The barrier to entry is much lower on the edge side. The end result you predict is certainly possible, but only if elect to sleep through this phase like we did in the past 20 years and trust in Googles of the world. Even if a whole slew of crap products lead the gen 1, the societal mindshift on its own is worth the effort, imo.

sukilot 6y ago

What's the point of putting an amateur-run data center in every apartment building instead of using a proper one in town? Or instead of just putting it in my unit (with off-site backup of course), since a personal data center is just a single computer? My landlord can barely run the water and A/C; no way they can run IT. The improved quality and reliability is worth it for the trivial latency cost.

eternalban 6y ago
You are assuming the only possible solutions require user maintenance. However, your implicit point regarding income level and the range in quality of building management is valid, and successful products in this space would address it.