7 ms·

The continuing saga of the gene patenting case

38 points by grellas 16y ago

jcr 16y ago
grellas, many thanks for the submitted article. It's good to know about the case, but I have to admit that reading about patents on genes, living organisms and medical treatments is disturbing. We need a better system; one that rewards research and innovation with incentives but without granting the disincentive of monopoly.
- iwwr 16y ago
  There is one system and it's called 'the market'.
rosenjon 16y ago
Awesome article! Thank you for posting this. I just recently started really looking at Hacker News (mostly because of my Y Combinator application), but I have been really impressed with the breadth of stuff posted here. I am a molecular biology major and used to do lab research in this area, so I find it fascinating. I will say that the U.S. Patent Office really needs a refresh in terms of who it hires. Both in terms of software patents and molecular biology, it is pretty clear that the people issuing these patents don't understand the core issues. The isolation of a DNA sequence should not be patentable, any more than reading data off a disk drive is patentable. Both these technologies relied on years of publicly funded scientific research and a myriad of different technologies. This company has merely built on those findings. If they have discovered a novel way to analyze the results of a specific sequence, and determined a provable correlation between a specific sequence variant and getting breast cancer, then perhaps this is an invention that deserves patent protection in the form of a commercializable product. In no way should this restrict further research in the area, however. The entire point of the patent system is to trade disclosure for protection. These guys seem like they want to prevent anyone else from researching these genes entirely, which in my mind is just plain selfish and goes against the spirit of the patent system. I agree that there needs to be some benefits to companies that produce novel discoveries in the area of information technology (which is really what we are talking about regarding molecular biology and software patents). Patenting genes is not the way. Patenting software algorithms is not the way. Bottom line: Our legislators need to get off their asses and adapt our laws for the 21st Century. Or we need to find new legislators who will.
iwwr 16y ago
The only solid position against patents is the principled one. It would be a shame if biotech were hobbled for decades to come. For those interested, a must-read resource: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.h...
- rosenjon 16y ago
  I think the question is: What is the principled stance? The link you referenced would generally be considered the far-left stance, in that there really shouldn't be any property ownership at all (the referenced writings seem to suggest that even real property is a menace). Personally, I think there should be some reward for truly novel invention. I agree with the referenced writings that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich does not qualify for such protection, despite what the Patent Office may do. This is simply an indication of the level of work being done at the Patent Office, however, amongst other structural problems in the system. I do think that the patent system serves a purpose. For invention that is truly novel, it is worth the price of temporary monopoly to encourage disclosure. Many of the novel drugs on the market today might not exist without patent protection. It is simply too expensive to create a new drug without the promise of a future upside free from the inevitable copycats, who could underprice because they have no R&D expense. While drug companies are not usually considered the good guy due to over-pricing (because of patent monopolies), I think we are better off having the drugs in the long term and suffering the short term consequences of issuing the patent.
  - iwwr 16y ago
    There is a very clear distinction between IP and 'physical (real?) property', we can at least agree on that, can we? There is a great drive to define IP in the same vein as physical property, in order to derive the same kinds of protections. But they are fundamentally different and so IP belongs in a category of its own. The problem with monopoly for inventions is that people can come up with the same ideas independently and some developments are merely logical engineering solutions to a given problem (other engineers may solve it the same way and independently). As for drugs, the real costs come from the regulatory procedures and less from the R&D itself. And even then, why should a company be granted a monopoly for simply following a logical series of steps (which any other company could do)? There is no clear idea what 'truly novel' means and how it's distinguished from an 'engineering solution' as defined above.

38 points by grellas 16y ago

jcr 16y ago

grellas, many thanks for the submitted article. It's good to know about the case, but I have to admit that reading about patents on genes, living organisms and medical treatments is disturbing. We need a better system; one that rewards research and innovation with incentives but without granting the disincentive of monopoly.

iwwr 16y ago
There is one system and it's called 'the market'.

rosenjon 16y ago

Awesome article! Thank you for posting this. I just recently started really looking at Hacker News (mostly because of my Y Combinator application), but I have been really impressed with the breadth of stuff posted here. I am a molecular biology major and used to do lab research in this area, so I find it fascinating. I will say that the U.S. Patent Office really needs a refresh in terms of who it hires. Both in terms of software patents and molecular biology, it is pretty clear that the people issuing these patents don't understand the core issues. The isolation of a DNA sequence should not be patentable, any more than reading data off a disk drive is patentable. Both these technologies relied on years of publicly funded scientific research and a myriad of different technologies. This company has merely built on those findings. If they have discovered a novel way to analyze the results of a specific sequence, and determined a provable correlation between a specific sequence variant and getting breast cancer, then perhaps this is an invention that deserves patent protection in the form of a commercializable product. In no way should this restrict further research in the area, however. The entire point of the patent system is to trade disclosure for protection. These guys seem like they want to prevent anyone else from researching these genes entirely, which in my mind is just plain selfish and goes against the spirit of the patent system. I agree that there needs to be some benefits to companies that produce novel discoveries in the area of information technology (which is really what we are talking about regarding molecular biology and software patents). Patenting genes is not the way. Patenting software algorithms is not the way. Bottom line: Our legislators need to get off their asses and adapt our laws for the 21st Century. Or we need to find new legislators who will.

iwwr 16y ago

The only solid position against patents is the principled one. It would be a shame if biotech were hobbled for decades to come. For those interested, a must-read resource: http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.htm http://levine.sscnet.ucla.edu/general/intellectual/against.h...

rosenjon 16y ago
I think the question is: What is the principled stance? The link you referenced would generally be considered the far-left stance, in that there really shouldn't be any property ownership at all (the referenced writings seem to suggest that even real property is a menace). Personally, I think there should be some reward for truly novel invention. I agree with the referenced writings that a peanut butter and jelly sandwich does not qualify for such protection, despite what the Patent Office may do. This is simply an indication of the level of work being done at the Patent Office, however, amongst other structural problems in the system. I do think that the patent system serves a purpose. For invention that is truly novel, it is worth the price of temporary monopoly to encourage disclosure. Many of the novel drugs on the market today might not exist without patent protection. It is simply too expensive to create a new drug without the promise of a future upside free from the inevitable copycats, who could underprice because they have no R&D expense. While drug companies are not usually considered the good guy due to over-pricing (because of patent monopolies), I think we are better off having the drugs in the long term and suffering the short term consequences of issuing the patent.
- iwwr 16y ago
  There is a very clear distinction between IP and 'physical (real?) property', we can at least agree on that, can we? There is a great drive to define IP in the same vein as physical property, in order to derive the same kinds of protections. But they are fundamentally different and so IP belongs in a category of its own. The problem with monopoly for inventions is that people can come up with the same ideas independently and some developments are merely logical engineering solutions to a given problem (other engineers may solve it the same way and independently). As for drugs, the real costs come from the regulatory procedures and less from the R&D itself. And even then, why should a company be granted a monopoly for simply following a logical series of steps (which any other company could do)? There is no clear idea what 'truly novel' means and how it's distinguished from an 'engineering solution' as defined above.