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Spending free time for enjoyment can’t be considered a waste. Don’t violate the golden rule and the hobby is fine. The only person who cares that your hobby i

Spending free time for enjoyment can’t be considered a waste. Don’t violate the golden rule and the hobby is fine. The only person who cares that your hobby is healthy is you. Don’t disrespect others. Martial arts is even worse by this metric because gamers don’t insult other peoples’ hobbies as often.

hombre_fatal 6y ago
> Spending free time for enjoyment can’t be considered a waste. I don't think we actually believe that. We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation. Also, your future-self doesn't necessarily agree with that either. Give your future-self a say in how you spend you time today because they're the one who has to live with it. "Time enjoyed while wasted wasn't time wasted!" tends to only be something present-you says to conveniently justify spending time in ways that will turn out to be unfulfilling with high opportunity costs.
- willis936 6y ago
  Those things are often coupled with addiction, is self-destructive. Addiction from lack of a balanced life is an arguably preventable downward spiral. If you want to say video games fall in the same category, I would argue video games are to heroin as caffeine is to amphetamine. Additionally, things that people get addicted to are not the issue, but rather the life around the things that people are addicted to are the issue. Just look at the use of cell phones in the contemporary world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park On future-self: My future-self already makes my decisions. If they choose to appreciate art (as video games are) on a Sunday or repair some electronics older than me, or go on a walk, none of those things are wastes of time. The mere supposition that they are is obnoxious.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "I don't think we actually believe that. We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation." A better analogy is between video game addiction and gambling addiction. Nobody denies that gambling addiction is a medical phenomenon despite being not being caused by drug dependency. (As an unrelated aside, the trifecta is Asian-style gacha games, which combine video game addiction, gambling addiction, and borderline-pornography addiction into one neat little package. Small wonder they draw in whales despite usually not being very good in terms of game mechanics.)
- chongli 6y ago
  We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation. This is a great point as well. Not everyone who plays video games makes a hobby out of it. A key part of a hobby is a sense of pride and accomplishment which the hobbyist enjoys by showing off their hobby to others. For example, a stamp collector showing off their collection to non-collectors and collectors alike. Many gamers either have no interest in showing off their gaming accomplishments to non-gamers or otherwise have an aversion to doing so. Some, however, specifically do consider their gaming to be a hobby. My favourite example is the speedrunner LackAttack24 [1]. He specifically identifies speedrunning as his hobby and he makes extensive spreadsheets documenting his goals as well as his progress. He also happens to hold quite a number of (current and former) world records [2] in the Legend of Zelda as well as a few other games. He's also very good at budgeting his time appropriately so as not to take away much time from his family and job as a developer. This hobby-life balance is another piece of the puzzle. your future-self doesn't necessarily agree with that either I think this is bang on. I would even go so far as to say that what you're doing is not a hobby unless you believe your future-self would be proud of the time you spent. Now some people do abandon their hobbies and later look back with regret, but I doubt they anticipate this at the time they're practicing the hobby. [1] https://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24 https://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24 [2] https://www.speedrun.com/user/lackattack24 https://www.speedrun.com/user/lackattack24
chongli 6y ago
gamers don’t insult other peoples’ hobbies as often That’s not been my experience. From what I’ve seen, gamers insult anyone and everyone who doesn’t fit in with them. They also insult each other as a form of bonding, though the tone is way less nasty than the one they reserve for outsiders.
- willis936 6y ago
  Do you have substance to back that up? We have a public figure MMA fighter and video game player shaming one hobby and praising the other. Do we have a single instance of a gamer public figure shaming some other hobby?
  - chongli 6y ago
    Now you’re moving the goalposts but the answer is still yes. I’ve seen plenty of popular streamers on Twitch shaming people for playing other games or for non-gaming related hobbies such as IRL streaming, ASMR, etc. There have been many public scandals on this topic, sometimes with Twitch even banning these streamers. Try spending some time in the chat of popular Twitch gaming streamers. You’ll see some absolutely toxic behaviour. I’m honestly surprised that people on HN would be unaware of this stuff.
    - willis936 6y ago
      Asking for substance to a claim is not moving goalposts. The substance to my statements are in the OP. I am asking for one documented instance.
      - chongli 6y ago
        I was talking about gamers in general. You moved the goalposts by making it about public figure gamers.
        willis936 6y ago
        If you have some objective metric then feel free to put it forward. “I see X on on Y all the time” is completely unsubstantive. Just one instance to make your point is all I am asking.

hombre_fatal 6y ago

> Spending free time for enjoyment can’t be considered a waste. I don't think we actually believe that. We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation. Also, your future-self doesn't necessarily agree with that either. Give your future-self a say in how you spend you time today because they're the one who has to live with it. "Time enjoyed while wasted wasn't time wasted!" tends to only be something present-you says to conveniently justify spending time in ways that will turn out to be unfulfilling with high opportunity costs.

willis936 6y ago
Those things are often coupled with addiction, is self-destructive. Addiction from lack of a balanced life is an arguably preventable downward spiral. If you want to say video games fall in the same category, I would argue video games are to heroin as caffeine is to amphetamine. Additionally, things that people get addicted to are not the issue, but rather the life around the things that people are addicted to are the issue. Just look at the use of cell phones in the contemporary world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Park On future-self: My future-self already makes my decisions. If they choose to appreciate art (as video games are) on a Sunday or repair some electronics older than me, or go on a walk, none of those things are wastes of time. The mere supposition that they are is obnoxious.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "I don't think we actually believe that. We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation." A better analogy is between video game addiction and gambling addiction. Nobody denies that gambling addiction is a medical phenomenon despite being not being caused by drug dependency. (As an unrelated aside, the trifecta is Asian-style gacha games, which combine video game addiction, gambling addiction, and borderline-pornography addiction into one neat little package. Small wonder they draw in whales despite usually not being very good in terms of game mechanics.)
chongli 6y ago
We don't say that about something like heroin or masturbation. This is a great point as well. Not everyone who plays video games makes a hobby out of it. A key part of a hobby is a sense of pride and accomplishment which the hobbyist enjoys by showing off their hobby to others. For example, a stamp collector showing off their collection to non-collectors and collectors alike. Many gamers either have no interest in showing off their gaming accomplishments to non-gamers or otherwise have an aversion to doing so. Some, however, specifically do consider their gaming to be a hobby. My favourite example is the speedrunner LackAttack24 [1]. He specifically identifies speedrunning as his hobby and he makes extensive spreadsheets documenting his goals as well as his progress. He also happens to hold quite a number of (current and former) world records [2] in the Legend of Zelda as well as a few other games. He's also very good at budgeting his time appropriately so as not to take away much time from his family and job as a developer. This hobby-life balance is another piece of the puzzle. your future-self doesn't necessarily agree with that either I think this is bang on. I would even go so far as to say that what you're doing is not a hobby unless you believe your future-self would be proud of the time you spent. Now some people do abandon their hobbies and later look back with regret, but I doubt they anticipate this at the time they're practicing the hobby. [1] https://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24 https://www.twitch.tv/lackattack24 [2] https://www.speedrun.com/user/lackattack24 https://www.speedrun.com/user/lackattack24

chongli 6y ago

gamers don’t insult other peoples’ hobbies as often That’s not been my experience. From what I’ve seen, gamers insult anyone and everyone who doesn’t fit in with them. They also insult each other as a form of bonding, though the tone is way less nasty than the one they reserve for outsiders.

willis936 6y ago
Do you have substance to back that up? We have a public figure MMA fighter and video game player shaming one hobby and praising the other. Do we have a single instance of a gamer public figure shaming some other hobby?
- chongli 6y ago
  Now you’re moving the goalposts but the answer is still yes. I’ve seen plenty of popular streamers on Twitch shaming people for playing other games or for non-gaming related hobbies such as IRL streaming, ASMR, etc. There have been many public scandals on this topic, sometimes with Twitch even banning these streamers. Try spending some time in the chat of popular Twitch gaming streamers. You’ll see some absolutely toxic behaviour. I’m honestly surprised that people on HN would be unaware of this stuff.
  - willis936 6y ago
    Asking for substance to a claim is not moving goalposts. The substance to my statements are in the OP. I am asking for one documented instance.
    - chongli 6y ago
      I was talking about gamers in general. You moved the goalposts by making it about public figure gamers.
      - willis936 6y ago
        If you have some objective metric then feel free to put it forward. “I see X on on Y all the time” is completely unsubstantive. Just one instance to make your point is all I am asking.