5 ms·

Most people who like books, films and TV, consume these media types passively, i.e., they are less immersive and hence perhaps less dangerous. With _creating_ m

by timkam 6y ago

Most people who like books, films and TV, consume these media types passively, i.e., they are less immersive and hence perhaps less dangerous. With _creating_ music, I'd argue the situation is similar to martial arts: it requires discipline, and actually social skills if you want to be relevant. The same is true for many "e-sports". However, I agree with Rogan more or less, because there are just too many games that are too dull and too many young males who waste their time with them. Based on my personal experience, I would say most of my time spent gaming as a teenager was wasted, but playing music actually taught me important lessons for life. For me the social aspects, as well as the "mastery" aspects of gaming were just too simple, too simulated.

irvtivitbibgbog 6y ago
What sort of "lessons for life" did playing music teach you?
- timkam 6y ago
  These insights may be trivial, but still important to experience first hand and early in life (let me highlight that I was never an excellent or successful musician, though): * Having solid basic skills in a profession is crucial; in contrast, almost nobody really needs a virtuoso. Practically, nobody needs a rock star or diva. * Always be reliable, even if others are not (don't pay back unreliability by being not reliable yourself). Be the one who is on time and does his homework. (In contrast, in school I learned that what technicality qualifies as homework often does not pay off.) * Continuity is key to get a decent chance to succeed (again, in contrast school taught me that you can make things up as you go along, as long as you are somewhat talented). To relate to the topic: the problem with many video games is that reliability and continuity come effortless. You simply need to go online and play. In contrast, as an amateur musician, I had to make sure I have the right gear, plan the transport without owning a car, make sure I can get into a rehearsal room regularly, find the right people to play with (the ones who have the connections that are needed to actually get a gig) et cetera.
formerly_proven 6y ago
> The same is true for many "e-sports". Just like in "real" sports, many personalities in "e-sports" make a point of being douchebags. Some make a point of being a nice person. > For me the social aspects, as well as the "mastery" aspects of gaming were just too simple, too simulated. I agree, in multiplayer games "mastery" relates to improving mechanical skill, i.e. getting better at mashing specific button sequences as fast as possible or getting better at flickshots. These take a lot of time to get marginal improvements (e.g. improving your aim just a little bit beyond your personal baseline can take thousands of hours). In singleplayer and RPG games, "mastery" happens on the character and doesn't require anything from the player beyond either repeating some action a large number of times (e.g. picking locks to improve lockpicking skill) or simply allocating "skill points" awarded by advancing the game.
- panopticon 6y ago
  > I agree, in multiplayer games "mastery" relates to improving mechanical skill, i.e. getting better at mashing specific button sequences as fast as possible or getting better at flickshots. This is an incredibly shallow analysis. Most competitive multiplayer games have important strategic elements too. Positioning, knowing when to engage, effective team communication, countering opponent strategies, etc. Don't mistake this for defending video games, but you can't expect a productive discussion when the strawmen stood up are so absurd.
  - formerly_proven 6y ago
    Well, yes, obviously, but I'd counter-argue that the training regimes used for these games tend to focus on the mechanical side, while tactics and strategy are improved through playing matches. And even that part is called "The Grind" for a reason.
    - panopticon 6y ago
      What do you think NBA players are doing? Lots of individual training with a few 5-on-5 matches sprinkled in. Muscle memory is extremely important for being effective at all kinds of sports and activities, so most training regimes incorporate rote drills to build and maintain a solid foundation. Unless you're making a critique against games at large (physical and video), I'm not sure what you're getting at.

by timkam 6y ago

irvtivitbibgbog 6y ago

What sort of "lessons for life" did playing music teach you?

timkam 6y ago
These insights may be trivial, but still important to experience first hand and early in life (let me highlight that I was never an excellent or successful musician, though): * Having solid basic skills in a profession is crucial; in contrast, almost nobody really needs a virtuoso. Practically, nobody needs a rock star or diva. * Always be reliable, even if others are not (don't pay back unreliability by being not reliable yourself). Be the one who is on time and does his homework. (In contrast, in school I learned that what technicality qualifies as homework often does not pay off.) * Continuity is key to get a decent chance to succeed (again, in contrast school taught me that you can make things up as you go along, as long as you are somewhat talented). To relate to the topic: the problem with many video games is that reliability and continuity come effortless. You simply need to go online and play. In contrast, as an amateur musician, I had to make sure I have the right gear, plan the transport without owning a car, make sure I can get into a rehearsal room regularly, find the right people to play with (the ones who have the connections that are needed to actually get a gig) et cetera.

formerly_proven 6y ago

> The same is true for many "e-sports". Just like in "real" sports, many personalities in "e-sports" make a point of being douchebags. Some make a point of being a nice person. > For me the social aspects, as well as the "mastery" aspects of gaming were just too simple, too simulated. I agree, in multiplayer games "mastery" relates to improving mechanical skill, i.e. getting better at mashing specific button sequences as fast as possible or getting better at flickshots. These take a lot of time to get marginal improvements (e.g. improving your aim just a little bit beyond your personal baseline can take thousands of hours). In singleplayer and RPG games, "mastery" happens on the character and doesn't require anything from the player beyond either repeating some action a large number of times (e.g. picking locks to improve lockpicking skill) or simply allocating "skill points" awarded by advancing the game.

panopticon 6y ago
> I agree, in multiplayer games "mastery" relates to improving mechanical skill, i.e. getting better at mashing specific button sequences as fast as possible or getting better at flickshots. This is an incredibly shallow analysis. Most competitive multiplayer games have important strategic elements too. Positioning, knowing when to engage, effective team communication, countering opponent strategies, etc. Don't mistake this for defending video games, but you can't expect a productive discussion when the strawmen stood up are so absurd.
- formerly_proven 6y ago
  Well, yes, obviously, but I'd counter-argue that the training regimes used for these games tend to focus on the mechanical side, while tactics and strategy are improved through playing matches. And even that part is called "The Grind" for a reason.
  - panopticon 6y ago
    What do you think NBA players are doing? Lots of individual training with a few 5-on-5 matches sprinkled in. Muscle memory is extremely important for being effective at all kinds of sports and activities, so most training regimes incorporate rote drills to build and maintain a solid foundation. Unless you're making a critique against games at large (physical and video), I'm not sure what you're getting at.