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I've spent 16 years working for major niche publisher and am a bit addicted to eReaders. Every time threads like this appear here I see lots of people that have

I've spent 16 years working for major niche publisher and am a bit addicted to eReaders. Every time threads like this appear here I see lots of people that have no idea that there is a whole world of devices outside Kindle and Amazon. Here are some of the more interesting devices current out there in the market: Pocketbook Color: yes, a color e-ink device for about $200: https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch You can see the Pocketbook color reading comics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkufktAQC_E&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkufktAQC_E&t=0s which beautifully demonstrates its colour capabilities. Onyx Boox Note 2: 10'' e-ink screen, Android 9.0, touch and wacom digitizer: https://onyxboox.com/boox_note2 https://onyxboox.com/boox_note2 It can be used for school/uni/research. Its large screen and notetaking features pair well with annotating fixed-layout formats such as PDFs. I have some strong opinions about Amazon and its eBook business. I really like their tech but their business practices are not aligned with what I want for myself as an author. I have moved to Kobo for my personal eReader and am using a Kobo Forma which is their answer to the Kindle Oasis. Even though the Oasis hardware with its metal usage feels much more premium than the Forma with its flexy plastic shell, the device is much more open than the Oasis and it is easier for me to use it both as a reader and as an author. I live in the UK and Kobo through its partner Overdrive -- which it owned up until not long ago but I am not sure they still do -- allows me to borrow books from local libraries. I have a couple library cards from different library consortiums and that gives me a lot of catalogs to search and borrow from. Synchronizing with Pocket is also a godsend, every time I see a nice article here on HN that I think deserves more attention and care, I just send it to Pocket and read it from the Kobo in a nice park. Anyway, this is just some pointers to those here that never experienced ebooks and ereaders outside Amazon. Yes, Amazon brings a lot of value to the table, especially for the readers, books tend to be cheaper in Amazon but that is due to its monopolistic practices and thug tactics. Kindle is not where the innovation is happening, other devices have better hardware and better software, other companies have healthier ecosystems.

switch11 6y ago
agreed 100% with you soapdog anyone who works or partners with Amazon sooner or later wants ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with them look back to the hearing (Anti Trust) - Jeff Bezos was telling his people to go after their partners like a panther goes after a wounder gazelle * At least Microsoft waited until you became a big company to screw you over Amazon starts looking to screw you over the minute you start making a couple million a year
chewxy 6y ago
As much as the Boox is great, they have a lot of GPL issues. Plus the kernel they are using is very very closed sourced. Sounds like FUD, but I am generally quite wary of companies in China that do this
- Icathian 6y ago
  Was just gearing up to type this. Onyx is a known GPL abuser and won't get a cent from me unless and until they fix that. Chinese company or otherwise, the FOSS community is clearly going to have to help support GPL when the courts can't or won't.
- soapdog 6y ago
  That sucks! Well, there are other notetaking e-ink devices out there which I hope are compliant with the GPL. ReMarkable is good for notetaking but I have heard it is not much use for actual reading. There is Supernote and Bouye Likebook which support notes as well. I'm not sure of their license compliance though, all I'm saying is that there are other options for those wanting that kind of device.
- no_wizard 6y ago
  I am not a lawyer, so take this with the grain of salt it needs. Can’t the FSF or other entity file an injunction against the company from selling in other countries by filing the lawsuit with said countries? Based on copyright infringement/licensing infringement (not sure here it would fall) Again, Not a lawyer, but I feel like corporations have done this in the past
Abishek_Muthian 6y ago
I agree with your comment and the need to support alternate eReaders. But, >Pocketbook Color: yes, a color e-ink device for about $200: https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch I couldn't find the buy page anywhere to see its price(from India); Is it Geo-locked? Then, I came from Google to PocketBook's INT site with IN page - https://www.pocketbook-int.com/in/products https://www.pocketbook-int.com/in/products which seems to have only older products and the buy page lists a single dealer here who doesn't seem to sell that product anymore. I'm not taking this as a general case, but maybe this explains why not many people are familiar with non-kindle e-book readers nowadays, Someone 'even in India' can order the latest kindle(with their WiFi pre-configured[1]!) while unknowingly tapping a button in the Amazon app when in sleep; Okay there was slight exaggeration, but Amazon commands such a market position now that the linked 16 years ago story looks like gremlin which wasn't fed after midnight 'then'. [1]https://www.amazon.in/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201730860 https://www.amazon.in/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...
- soapdog 6y ago
  I know that the goodereader.com store has it and they ship world wide. I'm not affiliated with them and am considering buying one myself.
wazoox 6y ago
Rant ahead : the color PocketBook looks nice, but I'll be harsh: their website is atrocious. There is a loading animation that takes seconds to run every time you click anywhere. You can't easily find any relevant information. The "where to buy" page simply doesn't work at all and display no stores, even in Switzerland, their home country. It seems impossible to discover the price of the products, too. This is one of the worst site I've visited in years, really. It's plain terrible, obviously the nice look and animations were used to sell the website to clueless executive that never browsed the website, it's painful to watch such a train wreck. This site is a sure way to lose potential customers forever. Regarding ebooks, I have a strict policy of buying only ebooks without DRM. That strictly limits what I can buy, but I'm adamant (some SF, and that's about it). DRM is evil and must die. So I can't use either Kindle hardware nor app. Plus I religiously use only opensource/free software whenever possible.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- nondave 6y ago
  Strongly agree about the PocketBook website. It was so slow to load I assumed it was broken and left.
Ozzie_osman 6y ago
One of my favorite "readers" is Holloway's. It's not an e-reader, and while they do support those formats, their online in-browser reader is amazing. I wish e-readers evolve past just recreating the book format (with the added convenience of easy downloading and storing of multiple books). (disclaimer: affiliated with Holloway)
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  This product might appeal to someone who hasn't had an e-ink reader. Many people wrongly assume the experience with a Kindle will fatigue their eyes the same as reading on their phone or computer. In fact, it's very easy on the eyes. I haven't owned another e-ink reader, but I've had a couple of Kindles and they offer a lot more than just downloading and storing books (although vacation readers like me appreciate those features too). - Built in "backlighting" which is actually coming from the sides of the screen. Easy to read in dark rooms or direct sun - Change fonts and font sizes to suit your preference. Near sighted readers can increase the font size. Open dyslexic is available. Now they're allowing user fonts so you can bring almost any font to the experience. No web app is going to be better than an e ink screen. Reading a book on your phone is hard on your eyes and reading book on your desktop is way too clunky.
Apotheos 6y ago
Would love to hear your recommendations on favorite e-readers, especially small format, large format, and ones you can take notes on!
- soapdog 6y ago
  I don't have first hand experience with eReaders with pen digitizers. I've played with some devices owned by friends but I never had a device like that, which is quite odd considering I was a Apple Newton user, then iPAQ, and now my machine is a Surface, so I am all about pen computing. I know that someday I'll get one of those e-ink devices with pen support but I can't really recommend or talk about them besides telling you that they exist and some people really like them. One thing I've noticed is that note taking tends to be available in larger screen sizes. I think that is done so that using the device with fixed-layout media is easier. Most people who are doing annotations are doing it on top of PDF files from what I can tell. As for smaller devices, I really enjoyed the Kobo Mini, all it missed was a frontlight but it was a device that came out at the same time that those features were moving from premium ereaders into budget ereaders. That device is discontinued (even though mine still works fine) and I recommend small devices for anyone reading fiction, people reading non-fiction, especially technical programming books should be better served with larger devices. Reading wrapped source code in a small device sucks. I have been looking at a small device from Onyx but from what I have learned here is that Onyx appear to be a GPL violator, so I can't really recommend them even though they make very interesting devices. I think that between them, pockebook and Bouye there is a lot of action happening. Oh and there are multiple Chinese e-ink smartphones in the market, which might be tempting to some people but feels like "too early" for me. Throughout the years I have used almost every single Kindle device all the way up to the Oasis, Kobo Mini and Forma, Nooks, and Odyssey rebranded devices. From that list you can see that I kinda married my choice of device with having some sort of large bookshop behind it. Kobo is the main competitor for Amazon, Nook had B&N behind it, and the rebranded Odyssey device had a large Brazilian shop backing it. I never owned those independent devices that were not being sold without a book distribution channel bundled with it. That was because I really hate Adobe Digital Editions and will go back to pen and paper before using that crap. Lucky for me many of the books I buy are being sold without DRM so I think that I'll soon be able to enjoy those more advanced and open ereaders in the near future. The Pocketbook Color is the one I'm currently interested in. I think that the most important factor in chosing an eReader is first figuring out what you want to do with it. If you're buying because you're an avid reader that will consume a ton of fiction, the most important aspect becomes not the device but where you get your books from. In this case I'd recommend a Kobo mostly because I think that Rakuten is a better company for the publishing industry than Amazon and want to see more competition. Kobo devices are as good as Kindles. The only feature from the Oasis that I miss in my Kindle Forma is Audiobook support. Having to go to my phone to listen to my Kobo audiobook sucks. If you're buying directly from the publishers with non-DRM epubs then you can use anything you like (except the Kindle, you can still use it but it require some hops). In this case it is good to checkout what those independent vendors are selling. If you're interested in buying your first e-ink device, I'd recommend you pick a cheap entry level offer. Don't go spend a lot in a premium device such as the Oasis or the Forma without actually knowing if such devices are for you. I'm OK paying a ton to have multiple premium devices because not only I fancy myself as an author but because books are an integral part of how I see myself and experience the world. Since my younger years all the way to my current 40s, books have always been a constant source of knowledge and happiness for me, so I can burn some money towards devices that makes such experience better. Some non-Amazon brands you might want to check out: * Rakuten Kobo: I consider them Amazon main rivals. I really enjoy "Kobo Writing Life" achievement system which gamifies your reading experience; Overdrive which lets me borrow books from my local libraries; Pocket integration that allows me to send articles from the web to my device. https://kobo.com https://kobo.com * Pocketbook: A major European device maker that just released a quite impressive color e-ink device. Be aware that their site sucks. https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch * Supernote: A device for those that want to take notes. https://supernote.com/ https://supernote.com/ * ReMarkable: Kind of the gold standard in note taking, really. https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2 https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2 * Bouye: They make nice ereaders. I coudn't find their site but it is easy to find their devices available in online shops. Never used one. * Sony Digital Paper: Yes, that Sony, they make some kickasss digital notetaking devices. https://www.sony.com/electronics/digital-paper-systems/t/digital-paper-notepad https://www.sony.com/electronics/digital-paper-systems/t/dig... (so does Fujitsu, check them out as well). * HiSense: is making ereaders and e-ink smartphones. Barnes & Noble still selling Nooks and Amazon of course has Kindles. Aliexpress has a ton of devices as well, mostly running unlocked Android, but the experience of using such devices might not appeal to you as they tend to be a bit half-baked in terms of UX.
no_wizard 6y ago
My issue with both: color e-ink refresh times are atrocious, and the other ebook reader doesn’t support color, a non starter for me unfortunately. Otherwise they look very good! Hopefully the tech keeps improving so we can have good color e ink displays that support sketching like the second tablet Edit: I take it back, this[0] version of the android powered sketch able e ink reader can be used with outside input, which gets me over the issue of no color. I think I might pick one of these up if I don’t find good software for the iPad Pro that can do this well [0]https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3 https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3
- soapdog 6y ago
  Check the link I posted on the parent comment, the refresh rate is not bad at all.
  - lostlogin 6y ago
    > the refresh rate is not bad at all. By eink standards. The issue for me is that devices seem to all be touch, rather than have buttons. The eink lag isn’t suited to this as touch without immediate response is not good. I’d prefer buttons. This niggle aside, those are impressive devices.
bosie 6y ago
Any suggestions for an entire 'environment'? I read on my Oasis but also quite a bit on macosx/iphone/ipad and really enjoy the sync (when/if it is working).
idunno246 6y ago
Overdrive is great, I get most of my books this way now through the library. it does work with kindles as well, bounces through the amazon store where they give you a time limited kindle book. I definitely hate feeling stuck in amazon with the books I do own having drm on them
routerl 6y ago
> Kobo through its partner Overdrive -- which it owned up until not long ago but I am not sure they still do Kobo and Overdrive were both owned by Rakuten. Overdrive was sold to an American investment firm, finalized in June of this year.

switch11 6y ago

agreed 100% with you soapdog anyone who works or partners with Amazon sooner or later wants ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with them look back to the hearing (Anti Trust) - Jeff Bezos was telling his people to go after their partners like a panther goes after a wounder gazelle * At least Microsoft waited until you became a big company to screw you over Amazon starts looking to screw you over the minute you start making a couple million a year

chewxy 6y ago

As much as the Boox is great, they have a lot of GPL issues. Plus the kernel they are using is very very closed sourced. Sounds like FUD, but I am generally quite wary of companies in China that do this

Icathian 6y ago
Was just gearing up to type this. Onyx is a known GPL abuser and won't get a cent from me unless and until they fix that. Chinese company or otherwise, the FOSS community is clearly going to have to help support GPL when the courts can't or won't.
soapdog 6y ago
That sucks! Well, there are other notetaking e-ink devices out there which I hope are compliant with the GPL. ReMarkable is good for notetaking but I have heard it is not much use for actual reading. There is Supernote and Bouye Likebook which support notes as well. I'm not sure of their license compliance though, all I'm saying is that there are other options for those wanting that kind of device.
no_wizard 6y ago
I am not a lawyer, so take this with the grain of salt it needs. Can’t the FSF or other entity file an injunction against the company from selling in other countries by filing the lawsuit with said countries? Based on copyright infringement/licensing infringement (not sure here it would fall) Again, Not a lawyer, but I feel like corporations have done this in the past

Abishek_Muthian 6y ago

I agree with your comment and the need to support alternate eReaders. But, >Pocketbook Color: yes, a color e-ink device for about $200: https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch I couldn't find the buy page anywhere to see its price(from India); Is it Geo-locked? Then, I came from Google to PocketBook's INT site with IN page - https://www.pocketbook-int.com/in/products https://www.pocketbook-int.com/in/products which seems to have only older products and the buy page lists a single dealer here who doesn't seem to sell that product anymore. I'm not taking this as a general case, but maybe this explains why not many people are familiar with non-kindle e-book readers nowadays, Someone 'even in India' can order the latest kindle(with their WiFi pre-configured[1]!) while unknowingly tapping a button in the Amazon app when in sleep; Okay there was slight exaggeration, but Amazon commands such a market position now that the linked 16 years ago story looks like gremlin which wasn't fed after midnight 'then'. [1]https://www.amazon.in/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201730860 https://www.amazon.in/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=2...

soapdog 6y ago
I know that the goodereader.com store has it and they ship world wide. I'm not affiliated with them and am considering buying one myself.

wazoox 6y ago

Rant ahead : the color PocketBook looks nice, but I'll be harsh: their website is atrocious. There is a loading animation that takes seconds to run every time you click anywhere. You can't easily find any relevant information. The "where to buy" page simply doesn't work at all and display no stores, even in Switzerland, their home country. It seems impossible to discover the price of the products, too. This is one of the worst site I've visited in years, really. It's plain terrible, obviously the nice look and animations were used to sell the website to clueless executive that never browsed the website, it's painful to watch such a train wreck. This site is a sure way to lose potential customers forever. Regarding ebooks, I have a strict policy of buying only ebooks without DRM. That strictly limits what I can buy, but I'm adamant (some SF, and that's about it). DRM is evil and must die. So I can't use either Kindle hardware nor app. Plus I religiously use only opensource/free software whenever possible.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
nondave 6y ago
Strongly agree about the PocketBook website. It was so slow to load I assumed it was broken and left.

Ozzie_osman 6y ago

One of my favorite "readers" is Holloway's. It's not an e-reader, and while they do support those formats, their online in-browser reader is amazing. I wish e-readers evolve past just recreating the book format (with the added convenience of easy downloading and storing of multiple books). (disclaimer: affiliated with Holloway)

schwartzworld 6y ago
This product might appeal to someone who hasn't had an e-ink reader. Many people wrongly assume the experience with a Kindle will fatigue their eyes the same as reading on their phone or computer. In fact, it's very easy on the eyes. I haven't owned another e-ink reader, but I've had a couple of Kindles and they offer a lot more than just downloading and storing books (although vacation readers like me appreciate those features too). - Built in "backlighting" which is actually coming from the sides of the screen. Easy to read in dark rooms or direct sun - Change fonts and font sizes to suit your preference. Near sighted readers can increase the font size. Open dyslexic is available. Now they're allowing user fonts so you can bring almost any font to the experience. No web app is going to be better than an e ink screen. Reading a book on your phone is hard on your eyes and reading book on your desktop is way too clunky.

Apotheos 6y ago

Would love to hear your recommendations on favorite e-readers, especially small format, large format, and ones you can take notes on!

soapdog 6y ago
I don't have first hand experience with eReaders with pen digitizers. I've played with some devices owned by friends but I never had a device like that, which is quite odd considering I was a Apple Newton user, then iPAQ, and now my machine is a Surface, so I am all about pen computing. I know that someday I'll get one of those e-ink devices with pen support but I can't really recommend or talk about them besides telling you that they exist and some people really like them. One thing I've noticed is that note taking tends to be available in larger screen sizes. I think that is done so that using the device with fixed-layout media is easier. Most people who are doing annotations are doing it on top of PDF files from what I can tell. As for smaller devices, I really enjoyed the Kobo Mini, all it missed was a frontlight but it was a device that came out at the same time that those features were moving from premium ereaders into budget ereaders. That device is discontinued (even though mine still works fine) and I recommend small devices for anyone reading fiction, people reading non-fiction, especially technical programming books should be better served with larger devices. Reading wrapped source code in a small device sucks. I have been looking at a small device from Onyx but from what I have learned here is that Onyx appear to be a GPL violator, so I can't really recommend them even though they make very interesting devices. I think that between them, pockebook and Bouye there is a lot of action happening. Oh and there are multiple Chinese e-ink smartphones in the market, which might be tempting to some people but feels like "too early" for me. Throughout the years I have used almost every single Kindle device all the way up to the Oasis, Kobo Mini and Forma, Nooks, and Odyssey rebranded devices. From that list you can see that I kinda married my choice of device with having some sort of large bookshop behind it. Kobo is the main competitor for Amazon, Nook had B&N behind it, and the rebranded Odyssey device had a large Brazilian shop backing it. I never owned those independent devices that were not being sold without a book distribution channel bundled with it. That was because I really hate Adobe Digital Editions and will go back to pen and paper before using that crap. Lucky for me many of the books I buy are being sold without DRM so I think that I'll soon be able to enjoy those more advanced and open ereaders in the near future. The Pocketbook Color is the one I'm currently interested in. I think that the most important factor in chosing an eReader is first figuring out what you want to do with it. If you're buying because you're an avid reader that will consume a ton of fiction, the most important aspect becomes not the device but where you get your books from. In this case I'd recommend a Kobo mostly because I think that Rakuten is a better company for the publishing industry than Amazon and want to see more competition. Kobo devices are as good as Kindles. The only feature from the Oasis that I miss in my Kindle Forma is Audiobook support. Having to go to my phone to listen to my Kobo audiobook sucks. If you're buying directly from the publishers with non-DRM epubs then you can use anything you like (except the Kindle, you can still use it but it require some hops). In this case it is good to checkout what those independent vendors are selling. If you're interested in buying your first e-ink device, I'd recommend you pick a cheap entry level offer. Don't go spend a lot in a premium device such as the Oasis or the Forma without actually knowing if such devices are for you. I'm OK paying a ton to have multiple premium devices because not only I fancy myself as an author but because books are an integral part of how I see myself and experience the world. Since my younger years all the way to my current 40s, books have always been a constant source of knowledge and happiness for me, so I can burn some money towards devices that makes such experience better. Some non-Amazon brands you might want to check out: * Rakuten Kobo: I consider them Amazon main rivals. I really enjoy "Kobo Writing Life" achievement system which gamifies your reading experience; Overdrive which lets me borrow books from my local libraries; Pocket integration that allows me to send articles from the web to my device. https://kobo.com https://kobo.com * Pocketbook: A major European device maker that just released a quite impressive color e-ink device. Be aware that their site sucks. https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch https://pocketbook.ch/en-ch/catalog/color/color-ch * Supernote: A device for those that want to take notes. https://supernote.com/ https://supernote.com/ * ReMarkable: Kind of the gold standard in note taking, really. https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2 https://remarkable.com/store/remarkable-2 * Bouye: They make nice ereaders. I coudn't find their site but it is easy to find their devices available in online shops. Never used one. * Sony Digital Paper: Yes, that Sony, they make some kickasss digital notetaking devices. https://www.sony.com/electronics/digital-paper-systems/t/digital-paper-notepad https://www.sony.com/electronics/digital-paper-systems/t/dig... (so does Fujitsu, check them out as well). * HiSense: is making ereaders and e-ink smartphones. Barnes & Noble still selling Nooks and Amazon of course has Kindles. Aliexpress has a ton of devices as well, mostly running unlocked Android, but the experience of using such devices might not appeal to you as they tend to be a bit half-baked in terms of UX.

no_wizard 6y ago

My issue with both: color e-ink refresh times are atrocious, and the other ebook reader doesn’t support color, a non starter for me unfortunately. Otherwise they look very good! Hopefully the tech keeps improving so we can have good color e ink displays that support sketching like the second tablet Edit: I take it back, this[0] version of the android powered sketch able e ink reader can be used with outside input, which gets me over the issue of no color. I think I might pick one of these up if I don’t find good software for the iPad Pro that can do this well [0]https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3 https://onyxboox.com/boox_max3

soapdog 6y ago
Check the link I posted on the parent comment, the refresh rate is not bad at all.
- lostlogin 6y ago
  > the refresh rate is not bad at all. By eink standards. The issue for me is that devices seem to all be touch, rather than have buttons. The eink lag isn’t suited to this as touch without immediate response is not good. I’d prefer buttons. This niggle aside, those are impressive devices.

bosie 6y ago

Any suggestions for an entire 'environment'? I read on my Oasis but also quite a bit on macosx/iphone/ipad and really enjoy the sync (when/if it is working).

idunno246 6y ago

Overdrive is great, I get most of my books this way now through the library. it does work with kindles as well, bounces through the amazon store where they give you a time limited kindle book. I definitely hate feeling stuck in amazon with the books I do own having drm on them

routerl 6y ago

> Kobo through its partner Overdrive -- which it owned up until not long ago but I am not sure they still do Kobo and Overdrive were both owned by Rakuten. Overdrive was sold to an American investment firm, finalized in June of this year.