4 ms·

> In Stockholm about 20% of the population now have antibodies, despite a lot social distancing. Maybe ... it's because of this: > No one is using face masks

> In Stockholm about 20% of the population now have antibodies, despite a lot social distancing. Maybe ... it's because of this: > No one is using face masks and the official consensus is that it doesn't provide enough contamination protection to be currently worthwhile. All the evidence I've seen is quite clear; masks are effective. And let's consider that the U.S., seen by many to be the worst handler of this pandemic thus far, is currently only ~8% of the way done. Yet Stockholm has already _blown_ through 33%. Sweden, on the whole, is at 9.4%; again surpassing the U.S. by a good chunk. I feel like the point of your comment was to suggest that Stockholm is doing well. The data is clear that they are not. In fact, they are doing quite poorly. I would take a good hard look at anyone in your government not vehemently pushing for mask use. > I'm far removed from the belief that we need a rushed vaccine to cope with this pandemic. I cannot for the life of me fathom why the impending death of 60,000 fellow citizens, and 600,000 disabled with chronic illness wouldn't convince someone that a vaccine is needed ASAP.

tigershark 6y ago
They have done extremely poorly with 10 times the deaths/M of Finland, 12 times the ones of Norway and the same deaths/M as Italy.
anoncake 6y ago
> masks are effective. At delaying herd immunity and prolonging the pandemic.
Vinnl 6y ago
> All the evidence I've seen is quite clear; masks are effective. Isn't there a lot of nuance to that, in the sense that it depends on other factors? As far as I understand it, the advisory body in the Netherlands (which sounds like it's in a similar situation to Sweden) does consider masks to be effective, but marginally so, in the sense that compared to social distancing, they are far less effective in combating the spread. And since they can't tell for sure yet to what extent the wearing of masks affects people's adherence to social distancing, they are afraid that mandating masks might be counterproductive if it leads to less distancing.
pastrami_panda 6y ago
> I cannot for the life of me fathom why the impending death of 60,000 fellow citizens, and 600,000 disabled with chronic illness wouldn't convince someone that a vaccine is needed ASAP. I deliberately wrote that a _rushed_ vaccine is not needed. All the side effects need to be carefully considered. Even some vaccines that weren't necessarily rushed proved to have really horrible side effects when deployed to the population at scale. I'm simply saying Stockholm is probably approaching 50% immunity soon (T-cell + antibody). If you isolate the outlier event that is the very poor treatment at the elderly homes at the start of the outbreak, causing a huge part of our deaths numbers, you get a completely different picture.
- ChrisLomont 6y ago
  It’s not clear you get permanent COVID immunity, just like you don’t get lifelong flu immunity. The Swedish gamble may become a cycle of unneeded deaths. And people gave you solid evidence that Sewdish numbers are not the result of early elderly outlier events. You should stop claiming that in so many posts when it seems untrue.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    If there is no permanent COVID immunity, a vaccine won't give it to you either and we might as well stop delaying the inevitable now.
    - ChrisLomont 6y ago
      That’s just nuts. Just like people get flu shots every year to prevent widespread outbreaks, a Covid vaccine that gives temp immunity would save millions of lives. Why do you think there’s such a big deal about people getting annual flu vaccine shots, especially the most vulnerable?
      - anoncake 6y ago
        There are 7.8 billion people on Earth. A vaccine that saves a few million isn't worth making billions put their lives on hold plus all the collateral damage that causes.

tigershark 6y ago

They have done extremely poorly with 10 times the deaths/M of Finland, 12 times the ones of Norway and the same deaths/M as Italy.

anoncake 6y ago

> masks are effective. At delaying herd immunity and prolonging the pandemic.

Vinnl 6y ago

> All the evidence I've seen is quite clear; masks are effective. Isn't there a lot of nuance to that, in the sense that it depends on other factors? As far as I understand it, the advisory body in the Netherlands (which sounds like it's in a similar situation to Sweden) does consider masks to be effective, but marginally so, in the sense that compared to social distancing, they are far less effective in combating the spread. And since they can't tell for sure yet to what extent the wearing of masks affects people's adherence to social distancing, they are afraid that mandating masks might be counterproductive if it leads to less distancing.

pastrami_panda 6y ago

> I cannot for the life of me fathom why the impending death of 60,000 fellow citizens, and 600,000 disabled with chronic illness wouldn't convince someone that a vaccine is needed ASAP. I deliberately wrote that a _rushed_ vaccine is not needed. All the side effects need to be carefully considered. Even some vaccines that weren't necessarily rushed proved to have really horrible side effects when deployed to the population at scale. I'm simply saying Stockholm is probably approaching 50% immunity soon (T-cell + antibody). If you isolate the outlier event that is the very poor treatment at the elderly homes at the start of the outbreak, causing a huge part of our deaths numbers, you get a completely different picture.

ChrisLomont 6y ago
It’s not clear you get permanent COVID immunity, just like you don’t get lifelong flu immunity. The Swedish gamble may become a cycle of unneeded deaths. And people gave you solid evidence that Sewdish numbers are not the result of early elderly outlier events. You should stop claiming that in so many posts when it seems untrue.
- anoncake 6y ago
  If there is no permanent COVID immunity, a vaccine won't give it to you either and we might as well stop delaying the inevitable now.
  - ChrisLomont 6y ago
    That’s just nuts. Just like people get flu shots every year to prevent widespread outbreaks, a Covid vaccine that gives temp immunity would save millions of lives. Why do you think there’s such a big deal about people getting annual flu vaccine shots, especially the most vulnerable?
    - anoncake 6y ago
      There are 7.8 billion people on Earth. A vaccine that saves a few million isn't worth making billions put their lives on hold plus all the collateral damage that causes.