4 ms·

That’s technically true but in the least useful way in practice. The wiper switch on the left stalk has 2 behaviors: if you tap the button, the wiper swings a

by akerl_ 6y ago

That’s technically true but in the least useful way in practice. The wiper switch on the left stalk has 2 behaviors: if you tap the button, the wiper swings a single time. If you hold the button, the wiper and wiper fluid activate for a handful of sweeps. The analog stalk doesn’t offer any other wiper controls, like the ability to modify wiper speed or enable/disable continuous wiper functionality. I’m not sure why the article includes that line without clarifying the specific nature of that interface.

SilasX 6y ago
Why would you design it that way? I mean, if you’re going to have a manual wiper control anyway, why make it so limited compared to what every other car can do? This obsession with touchscreens over ones you can control by feel without looking[1] ... it’s ridiculous. [1] sorry, anyone know the standard term for that?
- mcherm 6y ago
  > anyone know the standard term for that? I'm not sure what the standard term is either. I frequently use the term "tactile controls" to indicate controls that can be operated without looking at them. For what it's worth, I think essentially ALL controls intended to be used while in motion in a car ought to be "tactile controls" by that definition -- the operator's gaze is NOT available while operating the vehicle. (I'm OK if configuring bluetooth is done over a touchscreen, but NOT if turning on the radio or the windshield wipers is done that way.)
- akerl_ 6y ago
  As somebody who is obviously not knowledgeable about why Tesla did it that way, but somebody who does own/drive a Model 3, I can only offer my conjecture: It makes the controls simpler in a way that makes the parts and assembly cheaper. The Model 3 seems like Tesla tried very hard to streamline (read: cut corners) anywhere they reasonably could as part of lowering the cost to manufacture the car, in order to hit a more reasonable price point. The stalks already have a known history of breakage, many folks have had to have them replaced in relatively young Model 3s. I suspect somebody at Tesla HQ decided that having additional twisting elements or more control surfaces on them would have further increased cost. Another potential rationale is that, from Tesla’s vantage point, those controls are vestigial. The automatic wiper sensor should handle wiper activation, rendering the stalk controls unnecessary. In practice, that sensor is still in need of further tuning. But if Tesla’s goal is to build the car of the future, it’s possible they’re willing to front-run the software in picking hardware choices.
  - waiseristy 6y ago
    Ford, Chevy, FCA, etc. wiper stalk design is ubiquitous even on extremely low price vehicles. They are even cheap to replace when they break. I'm betting you're closer on the latter
- cavisne 6y ago
  There is no twisting part on the stalks in a model 3, so you only have the option of short press and long press. It is definitely the least safe part of the Model 3 imo. Having the rest of the controls on the screen is not a big deal but adjusting wiper settings can be important for safety and its not very intuitive.
  - frosted-flakes 6y ago
    Why don't they do what many other cars do, and put the wiper controls on its own stalk on the right-hand side of the wheel? Then they don't need any buttons at all, on either stalk (on my 2003 VW, the left stalk is for high beams and turn signals, the right stalk is for the wipers, and the steering wheel buttons are for cruise control). Or is the gear shifter on the right stalk?
    - akerl_ 6y ago
      The latter; the right stalk already exists and is the gear shift (and relatedly the autosteer/cruisecontrol interface)
- brianwawok 6y ago
  It’s better, and I wouldn’t want my car to operate any other way.
zaroth 6y ago
This is called the “mist” button, a dedicated button to operate the wiper exactly once, and every car I’ve ever driven had one. The button allows instant actuation of the wipers. There are times when you can get hit with water or mud unexpectedly so it’s nice to have. Any other adjustment can be made at a pre-planned moment with a single tap on the touchscreen, similar to checking blind spots or such. Note that pressing “mist” also shows the wiper adjustment controls on the bottom-left corner of the screen, so you don’t have to swipe to navigate to them.
- akerl_ 6y ago
  I agree that it’s good to have the button there, and prior cars I’ve driven also have it. I don’t think the existence of that button or its utility is in dispute. It also doesn’t change my desire to have the ability to enable/disable continuous wiper operation via tactile control.
bartread 6y ago
> I’m not sure why the article includes that line without clarifying the specific nature of that interface. Two possible reasons I can think of, but there may well be more. 1. Cynical take: like all news the article is written with a point of view. Sometimes communicating that point of view is more important to the publication than the facts. In this case I suppose it might better fit their narrative to make the driver seem even less sympathetic and even more of an idiot. 2. More straightforward take: they're simply ignorant and too pushed for time/under delivery pressure, or possibly (though less likely) too lazy, to dig deeper into why the driver might use the touchscreen rather than the switch, not realising that the switch offers no ability to adjust wiper speed. Either way, to me this makes the story less interesting and less useful. It could, for example, have provided an opportunity to challenge Tesla on one of their less than stellar decisions on interior and driving ergonomics. That's an opportunity missed. (I mean, I suppose we're doing that here, which is no bad thing.) DISCLAIMER: I don't own and have never driven a Tesla so am unfamiliar with the division of responsibilities between touchscreen and physical switchgear. This makes (2) seem more likely to me but only based on my own experience.
mnm1 6y ago
Wow. It's hard to fathom how this car got approval to be on the road. Windshield wipers are a core component of a car. A car without a proper control for them should not be on the road. Every time it rains, Tesla drivers need to fiddle with the touchscreen? What's next, send a text message to turn on the lights at night?

by akerl_ 6y ago

SilasX 6y ago

Why would you design it that way? I mean, if you’re going to have a manual wiper control anyway, why make it so limited compared to what every other car can do? This obsession with touchscreens over ones you can control by feel without looking[1] ... it’s ridiculous. [1] sorry, anyone know the standard term for that?

mcherm 6y ago
> anyone know the standard term for that? I'm not sure what the standard term is either. I frequently use the term "tactile controls" to indicate controls that can be operated without looking at them. For what it's worth, I think essentially ALL controls intended to be used while in motion in a car ought to be "tactile controls" by that definition -- the operator's gaze is NOT available while operating the vehicle. (I'm OK if configuring bluetooth is done over a touchscreen, but NOT if turning on the radio or the windshield wipers is done that way.)
akerl_ 6y ago
As somebody who is obviously not knowledgeable about why Tesla did it that way, but somebody who does own/drive a Model 3, I can only offer my conjecture: It makes the controls simpler in a way that makes the parts and assembly cheaper. The Model 3 seems like Tesla tried very hard to streamline (read: cut corners) anywhere they reasonably could as part of lowering the cost to manufacture the car, in order to hit a more reasonable price point. The stalks already have a known history of breakage, many folks have had to have them replaced in relatively young Model 3s. I suspect somebody at Tesla HQ decided that having additional twisting elements or more control surfaces on them would have further increased cost. Another potential rationale is that, from Tesla’s vantage point, those controls are vestigial. The automatic wiper sensor should handle wiper activation, rendering the stalk controls unnecessary. In practice, that sensor is still in need of further tuning. But if Tesla’s goal is to build the car of the future, it’s possible they’re willing to front-run the software in picking hardware choices.
- waiseristy 6y ago
  Ford, Chevy, FCA, etc. wiper stalk design is ubiquitous even on extremely low price vehicles. They are even cheap to replace when they break. I'm betting you're closer on the latter
cavisne 6y ago
There is no twisting part on the stalks in a model 3, so you only have the option of short press and long press. It is definitely the least safe part of the Model 3 imo. Having the rest of the controls on the screen is not a big deal but adjusting wiper settings can be important for safety and its not very intuitive.
- frosted-flakes 6y ago
  Why don't they do what many other cars do, and put the wiper controls on its own stalk on the right-hand side of the wheel? Then they don't need any buttons at all, on either stalk (on my 2003 VW, the left stalk is for high beams and turn signals, the right stalk is for the wipers, and the steering wheel buttons are for cruise control). Or is the gear shifter on the right stalk?
  - akerl_ 6y ago
    The latter; the right stalk already exists and is the gear shift (and relatedly the autosteer/cruisecontrol interface)
brianwawok 6y ago
It’s better, and I wouldn’t want my car to operate any other way.

zaroth 6y ago

This is called the “mist” button, a dedicated button to operate the wiper exactly once, and every car I’ve ever driven had one. The button allows instant actuation of the wipers. There are times when you can get hit with water or mud unexpectedly so it’s nice to have. Any other adjustment can be made at a pre-planned moment with a single tap on the touchscreen, similar to checking blind spots or such. Note that pressing “mist” also shows the wiper adjustment controls on the bottom-left corner of the screen, so you don’t have to swipe to navigate to them.

akerl_ 6y ago
I agree that it’s good to have the button there, and prior cars I’ve driven also have it. I don’t think the existence of that button or its utility is in dispute. It also doesn’t change my desire to have the ability to enable/disable continuous wiper operation via tactile control.

bartread 6y ago

> I’m not sure why the article includes that line without clarifying the specific nature of that interface. Two possible reasons I can think of, but there may well be more. 1. Cynical take: like all news the article is written with a point of view. Sometimes communicating that point of view is more important to the publication than the facts. In this case I suppose it might better fit their narrative to make the driver seem even less sympathetic and even more of an idiot. 2. More straightforward take: they're simply ignorant and too pushed for time/under delivery pressure, or possibly (though less likely) too lazy, to dig deeper into why the driver might use the touchscreen rather than the switch, not realising that the switch offers no ability to adjust wiper speed. Either way, to me this makes the story less interesting and less useful. It could, for example, have provided an opportunity to challenge Tesla on one of their less than stellar decisions on interior and driving ergonomics. That's an opportunity missed. (I mean, I suppose we're doing that here, which is no bad thing.) DISCLAIMER: I don't own and have never driven a Tesla so am unfamiliar with the division of responsibilities between touchscreen and physical switchgear. This makes (2) seem more likely to me but only based on my own experience.

mnm1 6y ago

Wow. It's hard to fathom how this car got approval to be on the road. Windshield wipers are a core component of a car. A car without a proper control for them should not be on the road. Every time it rains, Tesla drivers need to fiddle with the touchscreen? What's next, send a text message to turn on the lights at night?