8 ms·

Installing a mini-split would be a year-long project, including HOA negotiations, architectural design, electrical load calculations, city permits, and invasive

by p1mrx 6y ago

Installing a mini-split would be a year-long project, including HOA negotiations, architectural design, electrical load calculations, city permits, and invasive construction. It's not the sort of thing you'd want to attempt at the beginning of a pandemic (or ever, for most people.) Given the orders of magnitude less work required to find a product and click "Buy", it'd greatly benefit society for portable A/C manufacturers to compete on efficiency.

troydavis 6y ago
> a year-long project, including HOA negotiations, architectural design, electrical load calculations, city permits, and invasive construction Obviously only you know your situation, but just in case any other readers are considering a mini-split: it doesn't have to be this way and it typically isn't. From firsthand experience installing Mitsubishi mini-splits in multi-unit buildings in very regulated cities, a typical condo installation takes 2 days, including running power from an electrical panel that's not in the unit. A reasonable HOA can often answer in a week or two unless you're the first person to install a mini-split in the building. Larger buildings often recommend specific HVAC contractors. Your contractor will apply for HVAC and/or electrical permits online with very basic drawings; they're often issued immediately ("over-the-counter"), subject to field inspection. There's generally one inspection after it's installed. A good contractor will handle almost all of this. Basically, it can be complicated but it doesn't need to take a ton of calendar time. Other than cost and needing outdoor space for the condenser, the hardest challenges you & your contractor will encounter are running new electrical circuits from the panel and draining condensate from the indoor head.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  > are running new electrical circuits Why is this needed? Is it because the electricity in the US is at 120V? Over here (Europe) you can just plug the cable from the indoor unit into the electrical outlet.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    Depends, the lower btu units can plug in to any outlet, but even in Europe you can only get so much power. Regardless, ac draws enough power that you want it on a dedicated circuit no matter where you are. Sharing that outlets with anything else is likely to result in annoying breaker trips when you overload the circuit.
  - troydavis 6y ago
    bluGill answered this well. To add a little: the total load of all but the smallest systems (9/12k BTUs/hour) is too large for a typical 15A @ 120V circuit, so most outdoor units need 220V. That means a new circuit. Also, building code in the US typically requires a shut-off box right next to the outdoor unit. At least in the US, many systems power the indoor unit(s) from the outdoor unit. My guess is that since a control wire is required anyway (for central control of fan speed and direction), the manufacturers think it’s easier to power everything from one run.
  - masklinn 6y ago
    I learned recently that US housing generally gets 240V, but most circuits use neutral and a single hot to get 120V which is the standard mains in the country, and you'd run dedicated 240V for large appliances e.g. furnaces, dryers, electric oven, induction cooktop. The AC would not have been planned for when designing the original circuits, so you would need to add a 240V circuit for it unless you put it in a room which already had one. As the others have noted, since it's a high-power unit anyway you'd really want to have it on its own circuit to avoid adding too much load on the circuit. So even in europe you probably want a circuit exclusive to the AC, meaning you may have to run a new one unless an AC circuit had originally been run "just in case" (and even then it might not have been run to the room you wanted it in e.g. maybe the original builders put the circuit for an eventual AC in the living room but you want it in the bedroom you converted to a study).
anakaine 6y ago
A year long project to install a mini split? Wow. Split systems are the norm on my continent, and most can be installed in well under a day. Many installers can do multiple per day into existing dwellings, code compliant, filled, sealed, and on a proper circuit. Units/Apartments are likely to take longer.
- Spooky23 6y ago
  All depends on the locality, etc. Many people don't understand the world of stupid they've joined when they buy an HOA property. Although I have to deal with the psychic trauma of a neighbor who doesn't mow often, living in a reasonable city on a normal block means that permitting nightmares and other bullshit don't really exist. :)
  - damnyou 6y ago
    Lawns are really bad for the environment in many ways. A front yard that's all native plants both looks better and produces a healthier local ecosystem.
  - mint2 6y ago
    Hoa claims “we maximize the property value” which I don’t see how they say with a straight face. At best they achieve a local maximum nowhere near the potential, while costing a mint in fees and preventing one from doing anything crazy like planting native plants in the front instead of grass or not painting your house the right shade of beige.
CyberDildonics 6y ago
This is ridiculous nonsense. A mini split is basically the evaporation coils mounted on the wall and a hole cut to the outside for the refrigerant tubes to run. It would be nice to have it on its own circuit, though a 20 amp circuit might be able to just have it added on. That's pretty much it. Mount it like a TV, cut a hole in the wall, hook up electricity. No architectural designs needed. I'm not sure who told you that, but there are dozens of DIY youtubers who must have gotten free split units, because there is a flood of videos of people installing a precharged version with only themselves and a helper.
- bluGill 6y ago
  The actual work of installing is a day labor. The pre work to get the paperwork in place so you are allowed to install it can be over a year. I don't approve of the above, but that is how it is.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    I don't think cutting a small hole in between studs requires "architectural design" and "electric load calculations" really means "it uses this many watts". There is nothing typical about someone needing a year to do something relatively simple. Most restrictions probably just say that the condenser coils can't be on the side that faces a street and maybe that it has to be on a dedicated circuit.
    - bluGill 6y ago
      You would think, but California is a weird world where often it does take that long.
      - CyberDildonics 6y ago
        Both of your comments are basically saying 'this is true' and saying 'this is true' again. Do you have any sources or even reasons why installing a split unit air conditioner in all of california 'often' takes a year?
Gibbon1 6y ago
> including HOA negotiations Yah done goofed.
- p1mrx 6y ago
  HOAs are rather necessary for condos. When multiple people own a building, some entity needs to manage the common infrastructure.
  - balfirevic 6y ago
    Surely the US style HOA insanity is not necessary for condos, as demonstrated by the rest of the world.
    - Gibbon1 6y ago
      If an HOA is being an obstacle to ordinary and customary improvements to the property you in theory own, you goofed. In general if you bought a condo, you goofed.
    - gnopgnip 6y ago
      The go by different names, strata, coop, HOA, condo, but they exist all over the world to manage the shared property.
tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago
It'd also greatly benefit society to make the more efficient solutions more accessible (e.g. by reducing permitting requirements, preventing HOAs from regulating them, ...)
dzhiurgis 6y ago
Working with refrigerants is not that hard. A lot of sailors fix their own fridges in middle of nowhere. Building code for electrics is probably your largest problem. But then some places you can't even change a damn light bulb.

by p1mrx 6y ago

troydavis 6y ago

> a year-long project, including HOA negotiations, architectural design, electrical load calculations, city permits, and invasive construction Obviously only you know your situation, but just in case any other readers are considering a mini-split: it doesn't have to be this way and it typically isn't. From firsthand experience installing Mitsubishi mini-splits in multi-unit buildings in very regulated cities, a typical condo installation takes 2 days, including running power from an electrical panel that's not in the unit. A reasonable HOA can often answer in a week or two unless you're the first person to install a mini-split in the building. Larger buildings often recommend specific HVAC contractors. Your contractor will apply for HVAC and/or electrical permits online with very basic drawings; they're often issued immediately ("over-the-counter"), subject to field inspection. There's generally one inspection after it's installed. A good contractor will handle almost all of this. Basically, it can be complicated but it doesn't need to take a ton of calendar time. Other than cost and needing outdoor space for the condenser, the hardest challenges you & your contractor will encounter are running new electrical circuits from the panel and draining condensate from the indoor head.

balfirevic 6y ago
> are running new electrical circuits Why is this needed? Is it because the electricity in the US is at 120V? Over here (Europe) you can just plug the cable from the indoor unit into the electrical outlet.
- bluGill 6y ago
  Depends, the lower btu units can plug in to any outlet, but even in Europe you can only get so much power. Regardless, ac draws enough power that you want it on a dedicated circuit no matter where you are. Sharing that outlets with anything else is likely to result in annoying breaker trips when you overload the circuit.
- troydavis 6y ago
  bluGill answered this well. To add a little: the total load of all but the smallest systems (9/12k BTUs/hour) is too large for a typical 15A @ 120V circuit, so most outdoor units need 220V. That means a new circuit. Also, building code in the US typically requires a shut-off box right next to the outdoor unit. At least in the US, many systems power the indoor unit(s) from the outdoor unit. My guess is that since a control wire is required anyway (for central control of fan speed and direction), the manufacturers think it’s easier to power everything from one run.
- masklinn 6y ago
  I learned recently that US housing generally gets 240V, but most circuits use neutral and a single hot to get 120V which is the standard mains in the country, and you'd run dedicated 240V for large appliances e.g. furnaces, dryers, electric oven, induction cooktop. The AC would not have been planned for when designing the original circuits, so you would need to add a 240V circuit for it unless you put it in a room which already had one. As the others have noted, since it's a high-power unit anyway you'd really want to have it on its own circuit to avoid adding too much load on the circuit. So even in europe you probably want a circuit exclusive to the AC, meaning you may have to run a new one unless an AC circuit had originally been run "just in case" (and even then it might not have been run to the room you wanted it in e.g. maybe the original builders put the circuit for an eventual AC in the living room but you want it in the bedroom you converted to a study).

anakaine 6y ago

A year long project to install a mini split? Wow. Split systems are the norm on my continent, and most can be installed in well under a day. Many installers can do multiple per day into existing dwellings, code compliant, filled, sealed, and on a proper circuit. Units/Apartments are likely to take longer.

Spooky23 6y ago
All depends on the locality, etc. Many people don't understand the world of stupid they've joined when they buy an HOA property. Although I have to deal with the psychic trauma of a neighbor who doesn't mow often, living in a reasonable city on a normal block means that permitting nightmares and other bullshit don't really exist. :)
- damnyou 6y ago
  Lawns are really bad for the environment in many ways. A front yard that's all native plants both looks better and produces a healthier local ecosystem.
- mint2 6y ago
  Hoa claims “we maximize the property value” which I don’t see how they say with a straight face. At best they achieve a local maximum nowhere near the potential, while costing a mint in fees and preventing one from doing anything crazy like planting native plants in the front instead of grass or not painting your house the right shade of beige.

CyberDildonics 6y ago

This is ridiculous nonsense. A mini split is basically the evaporation coils mounted on the wall and a hole cut to the outside for the refrigerant tubes to run. It would be nice to have it on its own circuit, though a 20 amp circuit might be able to just have it added on. That's pretty much it. Mount it like a TV, cut a hole in the wall, hook up electricity. No architectural designs needed. I'm not sure who told you that, but there are dozens of DIY youtubers who must have gotten free split units, because there is a flood of videos of people installing a precharged version with only themselves and a helper.

bluGill 6y ago
The actual work of installing is a day labor. The pre work to get the paperwork in place so you are allowed to install it can be over a year. I don't approve of the above, but that is how it is.
- CyberDildonics 6y ago
  I don't think cutting a small hole in between studs requires "architectural design" and "electric load calculations" really means "it uses this many watts". There is nothing typical about someone needing a year to do something relatively simple. Most restrictions probably just say that the condenser coils can't be on the side that faces a street and maybe that it has to be on a dedicated circuit.
  - bluGill 6y ago
    You would think, but California is a weird world where often it does take that long.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      Both of your comments are basically saying 'this is true' and saying 'this is true' again. Do you have any sources or even reasons why installing a split unit air conditioner in all of california 'often' takes a year?

Gibbon1 6y ago

> including HOA negotiations Yah done goofed.

p1mrx 6y ago
HOAs are rather necessary for condos. When multiple people own a building, some entity needs to manage the common infrastructure.
- balfirevic 6y ago
  Surely the US style HOA insanity is not necessary for condos, as demonstrated by the rest of the world.
  - Gibbon1 6y ago
    If an HOA is being an obstacle to ordinary and customary improvements to the property you in theory own, you goofed. In general if you bought a condo, you goofed.
  - gnopgnip 6y ago
    The go by different names, strata, coop, HOA, condo, but they exist all over the world to manage the shared property.

tgsovlerkhgsel 6y ago

It'd also greatly benefit society to make the more efficient solutions more accessible (e.g. by reducing permitting requirements, preventing HOAs from regulating them, ...)

dzhiurgis 6y ago

Working with refrigerants is not that hard. A lot of sailors fix their own fridges in middle of nowhere. Building code for electrics is probably your largest problem. But then some places you can't even change a damn light bulb.