4 ms·

I recently did a little research on traveling from the US southwest to the US midwest. I wanted to avoid the hostility of US commercial air travel and was looki

I recently did a little research on traveling from the US southwest to the US midwest. I wanted to avoid the hostility of US commercial air travel and was looking at alternatives to driving a car. Driving a car was going to be a two day ordeal with a hotel stop somewhere. Turns out driving a car across the US is faster than Amtrak, even with an overnight stop at a hotel. AZ -> IL: 26 hours by car + 8 hour hotel stay 35 hour train ride. $120-150 gas + $100 hotel $600 train ticket Of course a plane ticket is < $200 and just a handful of hours. I wouldn't expect Amtrak to compete with those. But if you can't compete with a Ford Fusion over an 1800 mile journey...

labster 6y ago
Or, for 4 passengers, $120-170 gas + $100-200 hotel, which is still cheaper than a single seat on Amtrak.
mschuster91 6y ago
It's only cheaper because you're ignoring wear and tear (aka maintenance), depreciation and insurance in your calculation. Not to mention it's incredibly unsafe to do a 26h ride in two days instead of three - you don't want to do a 13h ride, so realistically you're looking at two days of some motel to stay over night. For what it's worth a proper high speed train could do a 10 hour run at 300-350 km/h. Not exactly the ~900 km/h of your typical airplane, but at least you 'll have a decent seat over the travel time.
- shiftpgdn 6y ago
  Phoenix to Chicago is about 1700 miles. At 70mph moving average it's a 25 hour drive. Trucking regulations allow a 14 hour drive, ten hours rest followed by I believe a 12 hour drive. It might be strenous but it's not dangerous. Also keep in mind 1700 miles at the IRS standard deduction of 55 cents a mile is $935. Assuming your car seats four (and all four seats are in use) that breaks down to just under $200/person.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    > Trucking regulations allow a 14 hour drive Whoa, WTF? In Europe, it's 8 hours regularly with 2x a week allowance of 10 hours (to be used e.g. in case of massive traffic jams), followed by at least 11 hours.
- wenc 6y ago
  A 10-13h drive (with breaks) on a modern (say > 2009) car is surprisingly non-strenuous on US interstates. I've done it and it was not onerous. The driving experience in the U.S. is markedly different from other countries -- interstates are wide and relatively smooth-flowing outside major cities, and rest stops are plentiful. To most Europeans a >10h drive sounds excessive, and that might be the case in certain parts of Europe, but the U.S. is (perhaps unfortunately, from an environmental perspective) built around the automobile, and the driving experience here is somehow different (i.e. easier). I've driven in Germany and while I enjoyed spending hours cruising on the Autobahn (A-8), parts of the journey involved driving on tiny, narrow roads in small towns. Those segments were frustrating. I haven't yet tried it, but I don't think I'd be able to drive > 5 hours in Europe (but I could be wrong).
  - myopenid4 6y ago
    I find the more frustrating part of driving on the Autobahn being the constant changes in speed limit. You cant just cruise 170kmh all the way, since theres so many construction along the way plus the random 90kmh zone here and there.
- unishark 6y ago
  Why is there some physiological reason that makes longer drives unsafe? In my experience I can drive as long as I can stay awake, which I can certainly do for 13 hours in a stretch (and then some). I find it easier to be the driver than a passenger, for that matter, as at least I have something to do.
  - mschuster91 6y ago
    Even if you can manage to stay alert for so long, wide parts of the population cannot, which is why maximum limits have been introduced for commercial drivers everywhere (and accidents rates have fallen correspondingly), and why in accidents drivers who have been on the road too long are generally found to be at least partially at fault. Additionally, who says you're actually able to drive safely after 13 hours and react to something like, let's say, a child hopping in front of your car and that you just have been extremely lucky?
jedberg 6y ago
I made the same calculation getting from San Jose to Portland. I wanted to avoid air travel, so I checked the train. I'm taking four people. Air: $628 and about 5 hours (security, parking, etc) Train: $312 for coach, 21 hours (driving on each end) Train: $750 for a room for four My van: $120 gas, no hotel, 12 hours door to door w/ stops. The car is maybe $300 if you include wear and tear. But as a bonus, I have a car for my week in Portland. To have that same benefit with the other transit, I'd have to rent a car for a few hundred dollars at the other end. Heck, I could pay someone to drive my van for me for about $150 each way, and still break even with the train but save time.
kalleboo 6y ago
One thing to note is that the bullet trains in Japan are also expensive to ride. A 300km, 1hr20min train ride costs $100/person. But it still works out, because driving is also expensive - the highway network in Japan is privatized, and the tolls are pretty steep. The tolls for the same trip as above are $40. Add to that the cost of gas and parking, and driving only ends up being cheaper once you're several people sharing a ride.

labster 6y ago

Or, for 4 passengers, $120-170 gas + $100-200 hotel, which is still cheaper than a single seat on Amtrak.

mschuster91 6y ago

It's only cheaper because you're ignoring wear and tear (aka maintenance), depreciation and insurance in your calculation. Not to mention it's incredibly unsafe to do a 26h ride in two days instead of three - you don't want to do a 13h ride, so realistically you're looking at two days of some motel to stay over night. For what it's worth a proper high speed train could do a 10 hour run at 300-350 km/h. Not exactly the ~900 km/h of your typical airplane, but at least you 'll have a decent seat over the travel time.

shiftpgdn 6y ago
Phoenix to Chicago is about 1700 miles. At 70mph moving average it's a 25 hour drive. Trucking regulations allow a 14 hour drive, ten hours rest followed by I believe a 12 hour drive. It might be strenous but it's not dangerous. Also keep in mind 1700 miles at the IRS standard deduction of 55 cents a mile is $935. Assuming your car seats four (and all four seats are in use) that breaks down to just under $200/person.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > Trucking regulations allow a 14 hour drive Whoa, WTF? In Europe, it's 8 hours regularly with 2x a week allowance of 10 hours (to be used e.g. in case of massive traffic jams), followed by at least 11 hours.
wenc 6y ago
A 10-13h drive (with breaks) on a modern (say > 2009) car is surprisingly non-strenuous on US interstates. I've done it and it was not onerous. The driving experience in the U.S. is markedly different from other countries -- interstates are wide and relatively smooth-flowing outside major cities, and rest stops are plentiful. To most Europeans a >10h drive sounds excessive, and that might be the case in certain parts of Europe, but the U.S. is (perhaps unfortunately, from an environmental perspective) built around the automobile, and the driving experience here is somehow different (i.e. easier). I've driven in Germany and while I enjoyed spending hours cruising on the Autobahn (A-8), parts of the journey involved driving on tiny, narrow roads in small towns. Those segments were frustrating. I haven't yet tried it, but I don't think I'd be able to drive > 5 hours in Europe (but I could be wrong).
- myopenid4 6y ago
  I find the more frustrating part of driving on the Autobahn being the constant changes in speed limit. You cant just cruise 170kmh all the way, since theres so many construction along the way plus the random 90kmh zone here and there.
unishark 6y ago
Why is there some physiological reason that makes longer drives unsafe? In my experience I can drive as long as I can stay awake, which I can certainly do for 13 hours in a stretch (and then some). I find it easier to be the driver than a passenger, for that matter, as at least I have something to do.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  Even if you can manage to stay alert for so long, wide parts of the population cannot, which is why maximum limits have been introduced for commercial drivers everywhere (and accidents rates have fallen correspondingly), and why in accidents drivers who have been on the road too long are generally found to be at least partially at fault. Additionally, who says you're actually able to drive safely after 13 hours and react to something like, let's say, a child hopping in front of your car and that you just have been extremely lucky?

jedberg 6y ago

I made the same calculation getting from San Jose to Portland. I wanted to avoid air travel, so I checked the train. I'm taking four people. Air: $628 and about 5 hours (security, parking, etc) Train: $312 for coach, 21 hours (driving on each end) Train: $750 for a room for four My van: $120 gas, no hotel, 12 hours door to door w/ stops. The car is maybe $300 if you include wear and tear. But as a bonus, I have a car for my week in Portland. To have that same benefit with the other transit, I'd have to rent a car for a few hundred dollars at the other end. Heck, I could pay someone to drive my van for me for about $150 each way, and still break even with the train but save time.

kalleboo 6y ago

One thing to note is that the bullet trains in Japan are also expensive to ride. A 300km, 1hr20min train ride costs $100/person. But it still works out, because driving is also expensive - the highway network in Japan is privatized, and the tolls are pretty steep. The tolls for the same trip as above are $40. Add to that the cost of gas and parking, and driving only ends up being cheaper once you're several people sharing a ride.