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> Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumm

> Ultimately I feel that it is US who has been more to blame (contrary to much of Western media coverage) for the deteriorating US-China relationship, and drumming up the chorus for a new coldwar. Chinese policy seems to have not significantly changed in the last 5 years towards the US, but on the other hand US seemed ever more keen and eger to pursue a hostile attitude towards China. In what universe? The Chinese global stance has changed drastically over the past 5 years, and they have continued to deteriorate western companies and forced companies to appease their government, or the CCP will ban those companies, steal their IP and clone then. So far not a single soul has stood up to them, for fear of losing out. They've expanded their power in the South China Sea, laying claim to land and passages that aren't theirs at all and never have been. They fund North Korea as a satellite state to antagonize its neighbors, and turn in people that escape back to NK so they can be put in slave camps. The new security law gives them reach beyond their own borders to crack down on people that criticize the CCP. Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. Ask other Asian countries how they feel about China's slow and steady encroachment of their authoritarian regime that is anti-freedom.

getmeoutofhere 6y ago
> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you are so inclined, you can actually visit Xinjiang yourself and ask Uighurs there about the situation. China has been actively been encouraging foreign inspectors to visit Xinjiang to see the situation. Given that America was wrong (or blatantly lied) about WMDs, Iraqis stealing incubators, Iraqis murdering babies in Kuwait, and is a geopolitical rival to China, Im doubtful about some of these claims.
- partiallypro 6y ago
  You have to be joking. There have been Uighurs that have escaped, there have been journalists that have gone there...the Uighur population in that province is DOWN 90%, nearly overnight. We have video, satellite evidence, evidence of slavery, evidence of their hair being sold on the market, of their organs being sold on the market. You're either an agent of China or have fallen victim to their lies. After reading your bio, I'm not surprised that it's full of comments defending the CCP.
  - wadkar 6y ago
    It would be great if you can share source/links to these claims you’re making.
    - partiallypro 6y ago
      If only we had some sort of system where we could easily search for such information (unless you live in China, where such results are hidden or monitored) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-puts-uighurs-uyghyrs-muslim-children-in-prison-re-education-internment-camps-vice-news/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-puts-uighurs-uyghyrs-musl... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hair-weaves-chinese-prison-camps-uighur-muslims-seized-u-s-customs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hair-weaves-chinese-prison-camp... https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-of-uighur-minorities-meets-u-n-definition-of-genocide-report-s https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-o... https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u... Not to mention the UN even acknowledges the existence of the camps and kidnappings.
      - getmeoutofhere 6y ago
        1. Where is the hard evidence? I saw a lot of B-roll footage with he-said-she-said, but no hard evidence of the organ harvesting or hair harvesting you claimed in your original post. We cannot rely on testimonials because as history shows [4], testimonials are easily fabricated. [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) 2. Actually cites the exact same Vice documentary you linked in (1). 3. Cites Rushan Abbas, who worked in Guantanamo and for Radio Free Asia (a literal US propaganda outlet) [5] [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas 4. Quotes Adrian Zenz, which as I said in my original reply, cannot be considered a quality source. He doesn't speak, read, or write Chinese, and AFAIK hasn't spent anytime in China. His methodology for calculating the population of imprisoned Quighurs consists of interviewing a dozen people for estimations, and then extrapolating these figures across the entire population of Xinjiang. He produces figures, that on the face of it make no sense (1.8 million people imprisoned, three times the size of San Francisco). Is also NPR, which is US funded and cannot be considered an impartial source, given the geopolitical rivalry between China and the US. As I said earlier, these claims all originate from the same sources (Adrian Zenz, World Uighur Congress), but if you dig into their methodologies or funding sources, you quickly see how murky the details get. 5. Cites Falun Gong, which is a literal cult, akin to Scientology. Experts at the WHO have called into question these claims [6], and the US embassy staff conducted an investigation in 2006 and found no such occurances [7] [6] https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/08/20/transplant-claims-debunked-organ-harvesting-rumours-impossible-due-to-donor-programme https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/08/20/transplant... [7] https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http:/www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/None/20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http:/www.america...
nobody0 6y ago
> In what universe? I don't know, maybe the one where the U.S. constantly suprises the world in the last few years.
- partiallypro 6y ago
  Strangely another account with few comments/karma, but almost all defending China. At least on HN, this is a recent phenomena.

getmeoutofhere 6y ago

> Not to mention they have literal concentration camps where they are harvesting organs, hair, using them as slave labor and stealing their possessions. If you dig into this deeper, this is literally fake news. The sources for these claims are either the World Uighur Congress, a NED funded organization, or Adrian Zenz, a Christian fundamentalist who believes in the rapture, is Anti-LGBT, and praised the Nazis. If you are so inclined, you can actually visit Xinjiang yourself and ask Uighurs there about the situation. China has been actively been encouraging foreign inspectors to visit Xinjiang to see the situation. Given that America was wrong (or blatantly lied) about WMDs, Iraqis stealing incubators, Iraqis murdering babies in Kuwait, and is a geopolitical rival to China, Im doubtful about some of these claims.

partiallypro 6y ago
You have to be joking. There have been Uighurs that have escaped, there have been journalists that have gone there...the Uighur population in that province is DOWN 90%, nearly overnight. We have video, satellite evidence, evidence of slavery, evidence of their hair being sold on the market, of their organs being sold on the market. You're either an agent of China or have fallen victim to their lies. After reading your bio, I'm not surprised that it's full of comments defending the CCP.
- wadkar 6y ago
  It would be great if you can share source/links to these claims you’re making.
  - partiallypro 6y ago
    If only we had some sort of system where we could easily search for such information (unless you live in China, where such results are hidden or monitored) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-puts-uighurs-uyghyrs-muslim-children-in-prison-re-education-internment-camps-vice-news/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-puts-uighurs-uyghyrs-musl... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hair-weaves-chinese-prison-camps-uighur-muslims-seized-u-s-customs/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hair-weaves-chinese-prison-camp... https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-of-uighur-minorities-meets-u-n-definition-of-genocide-report-s https://www.npr.org/2020/07/04/887239225/china-suppression-o... https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u... Not to mention the UN even acknowledges the existence of the camps and kidnappings.
    - getmeoutofhere 6y ago
      1. Where is the hard evidence? I saw a lot of B-roll footage with he-said-she-said, but no hard evidence of the organ harvesting or hair harvesting you claimed in your original post. We cannot rely on testimonials because as history shows [4], testimonials are easily fabricated. [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_testimony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant) 2. Actually cites the exact same Vice documentary you linked in (1). 3. Cites Rushan Abbas, who worked in Guantanamo and for Radio Free Asia (a literal US propaganda outlet) [5] [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rushan_Abbas 4. Quotes Adrian Zenz, which as I said in my original reply, cannot be considered a quality source. He doesn't speak, read, or write Chinese, and AFAIK hasn't spent anytime in China. His methodology for calculating the population of imprisoned Quighurs consists of interviewing a dozen people for estimations, and then extrapolating these figures across the entire population of Xinjiang. He produces figures, that on the face of it make no sense (1.8 million people imprisoned, three times the size of San Francisco). Is also NPR, which is US funded and cannot be considered an impartial source, given the geopolitical rivalry between China and the US. As I said earlier, these claims all originate from the same sources (Adrian Zenz, World Uighur Congress), but if you dig into their methodologies or funding sources, you quickly see how murky the details get. 5. Cites Falun Gong, which is a literal cult, akin to Scientology. Experts at the WHO have called into question these claims [6], and the US embassy staff conducted an investigation in 2006 and found no such occurances [7] [6] https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/08/20/transplant-claims-debunked-organ-harvesting-rumours-impossible-due-to-donor-programme https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2016/08/20/transplant... [7] https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http:/www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2006/None/20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231.html https://web.archive.org/web/20090620050738/http:/www.america...

nobody0 6y ago

> In what universe? I don't know, maybe the one where the U.S. constantly suprises the world in the last few years.

partiallypro 6y ago
Strangely another account with few comments/karma, but almost all defending China. At least on HN, this is a recent phenomena.