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Except for there being this joker called "national security" which magically allows practically anything to be ordered by the executive, because you can obvious

Except for there being this joker called "national security" which magically allows practically anything to be ordered by the executive, because you can obviously reframe anything into a matter of national security, even short video clips of dancing teenagers.

threeseed 6y ago
Let's be clear apps like TikTok are a threat to national security. Widely deployed apps that capture location data can and have been used to determine the location of military bases and assets.
- alfiedotwtf 6y ago
  If an app is a national security threat, maybe people shouldn’t be carrying them around military bases :shrug:
  - bezmenov 6y ago
    TikTok has been banned by the military since last year. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/30/army-follows-pentagon-guidance-bans-chinese-owned-tiktok-app.html/amp https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/30/army-follows-...
  - TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
    Many of those bases will have baby + home security cameras which are far more obviously a security risk, because they (potentially) send WiFi passwords home. Trump's move is pure theatre. He has no clue about real security and he's throwing his weight around like an attention-seeking child, because that's what he does. This is an entirely orthogonal issue to something that's been missing in the West for decades - a coherent program of IT security and IoT and app standards which define exactly what products and apps can and can't do, and which enforces a testing and certification process to make sure products and services stay within the lines. And also... mandated protections for user data - something the EU is moving towards, but which the US still seems to be having issues with. Between IoT, IT infrastructure, poor corporate security, and unregulated data capture, there are much more serious security threats than the TikTok app.
    - Hydraulix989 6y ago
      I fail to see how domestic US regulations will help in this case, if users are willingly installing this spyware app on their phone in the first place and giving it the requisite permissions to access everything on the devices. Do you think China will comply with US protections?
- MarkMarine 6y ago
  This is a parity of a NatSec threat. Any base that is legitimately secret would disallow it’s personal from using apps like this. And that data is trivially replaced by satellite photography. Non secret bases are supported by hundreds of “Third Country Nationals” that do everything from trash collection to serving food in the chow hall. TikTok is not a natsec threat unless our military personnel are posting natsec information to it. Pretty easy to solve that problem and not ban it for everyone.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    But what is happening is that personal devices are being used by military personnel on those bases. We’ve seen plenty of examples in the past of where location information has been leaked e.g. Strava. And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time.
    - rascul 6y ago
      > And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time. Estimates can be made regarding troop capacity and capabilities based on the billeting and vehicles in the photos.
- on_and_off 6y ago
  Is there any proof that TikTok captures any more data than any other popular app of its type ?
em500 6y ago
"Security" also happens to be the favorite purported justification of most authoritarian measures in evil regimes. Just look at China: ubiquitous surveillance, censorship, concentration camps, suppression of dissent are all justified internally as "security measures".
- faned 6y ago
  Should white nationalists be allowed to march and exist in the public space?
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Yes, that's quite literally a textbook case of First Amendment rights.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Why not? They look like idiots doing it, people nearly always counter protest. It's always nice to see proof that the master race they ain't.
- innagadadavida 6y ago
  There is an important difference in this instance - the US is applying these to a foreign company, not on its own citizens like China.
  - rfoo 6y ago
    I'm pretty sure when China banned Google & Facebook, it cited the reason as "not obeying local law" and "posing a national security threat".
    - Slartie 6y ago
      It was less national security and more not obeying local law, particularly the law mandating censorship of certain stuff. I don't like the Chinese approach to managing the public opinion by censoring valid information and opinions at all. But the opaque and uncontrollable pockets of power created by the US approach of misusing "national security" as an excuse for practically any action, most of them being more politically motivated than anything else, is equally disturbing and problematic. Both of these ways of governing lend themselves equally well to dictatorships, which I consider problematic, especially in modern democracies, which the US certainly claims to be (the Chinese government at least doesn't claim to be a democracy in the first place).

threeseed 6y ago

Let's be clear apps like TikTok are a threat to national security. Widely deployed apps that capture location data can and have been used to determine the location of military bases and assets.

alfiedotwtf 6y ago
If an app is a national security threat, maybe people shouldn’t be carrying them around military bases :shrug:
- bezmenov 6y ago
  TikTok has been banned by the military since last year. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/30/army-follows-pentagon-guidance-bans-chinese-owned-tiktok-app.html/amp https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/12/30/army-follows-...
- TheOtherHobbes 6y ago
  Many of those bases will have baby + home security cameras which are far more obviously a security risk, because they (potentially) send WiFi passwords home. Trump's move is pure theatre. He has no clue about real security and he's throwing his weight around like an attention-seeking child, because that's what he does. This is an entirely orthogonal issue to something that's been missing in the West for decades - a coherent program of IT security and IoT and app standards which define exactly what products and apps can and can't do, and which enforces a testing and certification process to make sure products and services stay within the lines. And also... mandated protections for user data - something the EU is moving towards, but which the US still seems to be having issues with. Between IoT, IT infrastructure, poor corporate security, and unregulated data capture, there are much more serious security threats than the TikTok app.
  - Hydraulix989 6y ago
    I fail to see how domestic US regulations will help in this case, if users are willingly installing this spyware app on their phone in the first place and giving it the requisite permissions to access everything on the devices. Do you think China will comply with US protections?
MarkMarine 6y ago
This is a parity of a NatSec threat. Any base that is legitimately secret would disallow it’s personal from using apps like this. And that data is trivially replaced by satellite photography. Non secret bases are supported by hundreds of “Third Country Nationals” that do everything from trash collection to serving food in the chow hall. TikTok is not a natsec threat unless our military personnel are posting natsec information to it. Pretty easy to solve that problem and not ban it for everyone.
- threeseed 6y ago
  But what is happening is that personal devices are being used by military personnel on those bases. We’ve seen plenty of examples in the past of where location information has been leaked e.g. Strava. And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time.
  - rascul 6y ago
    > And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time. Estimates can be made regarding troop capacity and capabilities based on the billeting and vehicles in the photos.
on_and_off 6y ago
Is there any proof that TikTok captures any more data than any other popular app of its type ?

em500 6y ago

"Security" also happens to be the favorite purported justification of most authoritarian measures in evil regimes. Just look at China: ubiquitous surveillance, censorship, concentration camps, suppression of dissent are all justified internally as "security measures".

faned 6y ago
Should white nationalists be allowed to march and exist in the public space?
- saagarjha 6y ago
  Yes, that's quite literally a textbook case of First Amendment rights.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Why not? They look like idiots doing it, people nearly always counter protest. It's always nice to see proof that the master race they ain't.
innagadadavida 6y ago
There is an important difference in this instance - the US is applying these to a foreign company, not on its own citizens like China.
- rfoo 6y ago
  I'm pretty sure when China banned Google & Facebook, it cited the reason as "not obeying local law" and "posing a national security threat".
  - Slartie 6y ago
    It was less national security and more not obeying local law, particularly the law mandating censorship of certain stuff. I don't like the Chinese approach to managing the public opinion by censoring valid information and opinions at all. But the opaque and uncontrollable pockets of power created by the US approach of misusing "national security" as an excuse for practically any action, most of them being more politically motivated than anything else, is equally disturbing and problematic. Both of these ways of governing lend themselves equally well to dictatorships, which I consider problematic, especially in modern democracies, which the US certainly claims to be (the Chinese government at least doesn't claim to be a democracy in the first place).