3 ms·

This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). IIRC, Foreign companies need to

by crusty 6y ago

This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. So a non-Chinese car company that wants to have ownership over it's Chinese assembly line operations and sales in China needs to partner with a Chinese company (typically another automaker) that actually owns >50% of the joint subsidiary that actually makes and or sells the cars. The alternative is Apple, which owns no manufacturing and had everything produced on contract from independent manufacturers. And again, none of this involves user data. Also, both the play store and Apple iOS store's content are at the mercy of the CCP gatekeepers, so even if a person in China can buy an apple product, they experience a different app ecosystem. I don't think there's a non-Chinese-owned company that has access to and stores user data streams, like a foreign-owned weibo or something, but I'd be curious if someone had an example.

chrischen 6y ago
> This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). How much do you think China makes on an iPhone? Most of the pricey parts are imported into China and just because the assembly happens in China doesn’t truth make it “made” in China. Even if you take lower margin brands like KFC, the US interests essentially rent-seek on that brand usage. You have to also understand that China is the economic underdog. In order to rise out of poverty they have to have some form of protectionist policies (which are not unique to China, as Japan also has heavy protectionist policies despite an already strong economy) or they’d be trampled by established foreign multinational giants. One country is a well to-do suburban college educated kid and the other is a poor high school dropout from the inner city. Their competition in the market would not be “fair” as their starting points would be unequal. That being said protectionist policies aren’t all good. They are a tradeoff that they chose to make and why they ended up with defective domestically produced infant baby formula, crappier internet search engines (which lead to wechat dominance), etc, whole local companies played slow catch up.
DiogenesKynikos 6y ago
> IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. You recall incorrectly. You're describing the situation about 30 years ago, in the early stages of China's opening up. In the intervening time, restrictions have been dropped from most sectors (including the automotive sector - Tesla's Shanghai factory is a demonstration of this). The Chinese market is open both to direct investment (FDI, which I mentioned above), and to imports of foreign goods. American companies have much greater penetration into the Chinese market than vice versa. It's blindingly obvious if you've been in both countries.
- asdfadsfgfdda 6y ago
  Tesla's factory was the very first foreign-owned car plant, without a domestic partner. This certainly has not been the norm in China in the past 30 years: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2154674/tesla-build-its-gigafactory-shanghai-capacity-produce-500000-cars https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2154674/tesl... China may be open to goods (ignoring the capricious enforcement of customs laws). But even politically benign services (banking, finance, insurance) cannot easily be "exported" to China. It's obviously protectionism. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/797098404/u-s-financial-services-industry-emerges-as-a-winner-of-u-s-china-trade-deal https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/797098404/u-s-financial-servi...
  - jjcc 6y ago
    There are a lot of foreign-owned companies long before Tesla. In my home town Changzhou there was a famous US company called METTLER TOLEDO which exists since 1992. I lived there 20+ years ago. I had a lot of friends worked for the company. All the town knew it was a wholly owned(独资）US company. Here's the only source I can find but in Chinese. http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 It mentioned 独资。There are other companies had Chinese partners called 合资 which means joined-adventure. They are different but 独资 exist as opposed to MSM claimed. Now I know you don't believe it. There are many people know the other side of story but they have been eventually down-voted out of HN to tell the truth. This one seems not quite offense to many HNer's beliefs so I'd like to provide some information. http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583

by crusty 6y ago

chrischen 6y ago

> This is apples and oranges. You listed hard good sales - imports (even if actually manufactured in China in the case of Apple). How much do you think China makes on an iPhone? Most of the pricey parts are imported into China and just because the assembly happens in China doesn’t truth make it “made” in China. Even if you take lower margin brands like KFC, the US interests essentially rent-seek on that brand usage. You have to also understand that China is the economic underdog. In order to rise out of poverty they have to have some form of protectionist policies (which are not unique to China, as Japan also has heavy protectionist policies despite an already strong economy) or they’d be trampled by established foreign multinational giants. One country is a well to-do suburban college educated kid and the other is a poor high school dropout from the inner city. Their competition in the market would not be “fair” as their starting points would be unequal. That being said protectionist policies aren’t all good. They are a tradeoff that they chose to make and why they ended up with defective domestically produced infant baby formula, crappier internet search engines (which lead to wechat dominance), etc, whole local companies played slow catch up.

DiogenesKynikos 6y ago

> IIRC, Foreign companies need to have majority-owner Chinese partner entities to "own" business operations in China. You recall incorrectly. You're describing the situation about 30 years ago, in the early stages of China's opening up. In the intervening time, restrictions have been dropped from most sectors (including the automotive sector - Tesla's Shanghai factory is a demonstration of this). The Chinese market is open both to direct investment (FDI, which I mentioned above), and to imports of foreign goods. American companies have much greater penetration into the Chinese market than vice versa. It's blindingly obvious if you've been in both countries.

asdfadsfgfdda 6y ago
Tesla's factory was the very first foreign-owned car plant, without a domestic partner. This certainly has not been the norm in China in the past 30 years: https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2154674/tesla-build-its-gigafactory-shanghai-capacity-produce-500000-cars https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2154674/tesl... China may be open to goods (ignoring the capricious enforcement of customs laws). But even politically benign services (banking, finance, insurance) cannot easily be "exported" to China. It's obviously protectionism. https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/797098404/u-s-financial-services-industry-emerges-as-a-winner-of-u-s-china-trade-deal https://www.npr.org/2020/01/16/797098404/u-s-financial-servi...
- jjcc 6y ago
  There are a lot of foreign-owned companies long before Tesla. In my home town Changzhou there was a famous US company called METTLER TOLEDO which exists since 1992. I lived there 20+ years ago. I had a lot of friends worked for the company. All the town knew it was a wholly owned(独资）US company. Here's the only source I can find but in Chinese. http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 It mentioned 独资。There are other companies had Chinese partners called 合资 which means joined-adventure. They are different but 独资 exist as opposed to MSM claimed. Now I know you don't believe it. There are many people know the other side of story but they have been eventually down-voted out of HN to tell the truth. This one seems not quite offense to many HNer's beliefs so I'd like to provide some information. http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583 http://www.bioon.com.cn/show/index.asp?id=11583