4 ms·

Your comment comes off as xenophobic. I know it's acceptable in tech circle to talk this way, but not cool.

by rtx 6y ago

beering 6y ago
OK, so how do we talk about the prevalence of awful off-shore software-development firms without being "xenophobic"? If you're going to lecture us on how we talk, at least offer an alternative?
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > OK, so how do we talk about the prevalence of awful off-shore software-development firms without being "xenophobic"? We don't, when the problem under discussion is endemic to outsourcing firms and has no particular connection to their location. The fact that there are lots of outsourcing firms that are, relative to where the demand for their services is, also offshore is completely beside the point. Raising that irrelevancy is the problem.
  - gfodor 6y ago
    Offshore outsourcing tends to be by far the cheapest, hence assuming people will use offshore firms isn’t xenophobia its based on a relatively likely assumption.
dctoedt 6y ago
That's not xenophobia, which is dislike or fear of foreigners because they're foreign. A lot of people have had similar experiences with offshoring. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia
rimjongun 6y ago
No it doesn’t, He mentions His reasoning. Nothing in His reasoning gave off the vibe that he is afraid of others because they are different. ::prays for downvote button::
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > No it doesn’t, Yes, it does. If the “offshore” weren't in it, it would be just as accurate and not xenophobic.
  - pier25 6y ago
    "Offshore" is there most likely because it's so common to outsource work to cheaper countries and not because of any xenophobia.
codegeek 6y ago
To be fair to GP, they did say it is ok to work with a direct engineer even if offshore vs offshore agencies that are just looking for a "project". I agree with him and I run offshore teams.
johnmcauley 6y ago
No xenophobia intended, the same can happen with onshore. But, there is a tendency to jump off shore due to costs and if you are inexperienced it can go very badly. That’s all. I’m experienced and it has gone badly on past experiences.
notxenophobic 6y ago
This is a throwaway account. I have been in companies where we'd outsourced to firms in India. The experience was not good for us, at all. The arm of the company that set up this arrangement, it went under. The offshore firm did not deliver. I realized what seems to be a cultural thing with folks I'd worked with from offshore firms. They would nearly always exude absolute confidence in their ability to deliver what you'd requested from them, no matter how complex the task. "Oh yes. Sure. No problem. We will get that done for you. Absolutely, yes. No problem." You never heard humility in the sense of, "well, I/we aren't experts in _________ but we'll research and get back to you." It was always confidence, to the extreme. I wonder why this is? The reality ended up being entirely different. Many times, they had no effin clue. These were with some very big-name offshoring firms. The flip side to that same coin… the folks from those firms that were genuinely skilled… they weren't in India. They got brought over on visas and were working in the US.
- rtx 6y ago
  >I wonder why this is? Because they were crooks, same as companies promising to protect your privacy and then selling your data. You will not hear anyone saying American tech companies are fraud.

Your comment comes off as xenophobic. I know it's acceptable in tech circle to talk this way, but not cool.

by rtx 6y ago

Your comment comes off as xenophobic. I know it's acceptable in tech circle to talk this way, but not cool.

OK, so how do we talk about the prevalence of awful off-shore software-development firms without being "xenophobic"? If you're going to lecture us on how we talk, at least offer an alternative?

dragonwriter 6y ago
> OK, so how do we talk about the prevalence of awful off-shore software-development firms without being "xenophobic"? We don't, when the problem under discussion is endemic to outsourcing firms and has no particular connection to their location. The fact that there are lots of outsourcing firms that are, relative to where the demand for their services is, also offshore is completely beside the point. Raising that irrelevancy is the problem.
- gfodor 6y ago
  Offshore outsourcing tends to be by far the cheapest, hence assuming people will use offshore firms isn’t xenophobia its based on a relatively likely assumption.

dctoedt 6y ago

That's not xenophobia, which is dislike or fear of foreigners because they're foreign. A lot of people have had similar experiences with offshoring. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/xenophobia

rimjongun 6y ago

No it doesn’t, He mentions His reasoning. Nothing in His reasoning gave off the vibe that he is afraid of others because they are different. ::prays for downvote button::

dragonwriter 6y ago
> No it doesn’t, Yes, it does. If the “offshore” weren't in it, it would be just as accurate and not xenophobic.
- pier25 6y ago
  "Offshore" is there most likely because it's so common to outsource work to cheaper countries and not because of any xenophobia.

codegeek 6y ago

To be fair to GP, they did say it is ok to work with a direct engineer even if offshore vs offshore agencies that are just looking for a "project". I agree with him and I run offshore teams.

johnmcauley 6y ago

No xenophobia intended, the same can happen with onshore. But, there is a tendency to jump off shore due to costs and if you are inexperienced it can go very badly. That’s all. I’m experienced and it has gone badly on past experiences.

notxenophobic 6y ago

This is a throwaway account. I have been in companies where we'd outsourced to firms in India. The experience was not good for us, at all. The arm of the company that set up this arrangement, it went under. The offshore firm did not deliver. I realized what seems to be a cultural thing with folks I'd worked with from offshore firms. They would nearly always exude absolute confidence in their ability to deliver what you'd requested from them, no matter how complex the task. "Oh yes. Sure. No problem. We will get that done for you. Absolutely, yes. No problem." You never heard humility in the sense of, "well, I/we aren't experts in _________ but we'll research and get back to you." It was always confidence, to the extreme. I wonder why this is? The reality ended up being entirely different. Many times, they had no effin clue. These were with some very big-name offshoring firms. The flip side to that same coin… the folks from those firms that were genuinely skilled… they weren't in India. They got brought over on visas and were working in the US.

rtx 6y ago
>I wonder why this is? Because they were crooks, same as companies promising to protect your privacy and then selling your data. You will not hear anyone saying American tech companies are fraud.