5 ms·

What if China stalls and the US administration changes in a few months.

by factorialboy 6y ago

sukilot 6y ago
China doesn't control Android and iOS App stores in US.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ericmay 6y ago
Don’t think it’ll change with Biden. The rhetoric level may change, but the overall sentiment is quite bipartisan and public opinion of China right now in America is awful. Also, the US can just ban it tomorrow and it’ll disappear.
- est 6y ago
  then tiktok may simply provide a web version. Will US build some kind of firewall?
  - ryanSrich 6y ago
    They already have a web app
  - manquer 6y ago
    They will not have remotely the same size of users who will be using the web version. The concern is size of their the control , not that they control at all
  - gpm 6y ago
    They'll probably end up banning advertisers from paying them, and TikTok from paying content creators. Sure, Americans will still be able to access the content (over an inferior interface), but TikTok will probably be losing money on American viewers (not necessarily a problem for a propaganda outlet), and TikTok won't be able to incentivize good content.
    - eirini1 6y ago
      in what sense is TikTok a "propaganda outlet"?
      - gpm 6y ago
        In the sense that they have been known to remove discussion that the CCP doesn't like [1], that they've created an environment where people feel the need to talk positively about China to get views [2], and in the sense that they are controlled by a company with close ties to the CCP (like practically every large company in China, harder to cite this but for an example see [3]). [1] https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-25-tiktok-censorship-china.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-25-tiktok-censorship-china.... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-users-gush-about-china-hoping-to-boost-views-11592386203 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-users-gush-about-china-h... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-filing/bytedance-unit-establishes-venture-with-chinese-state-media-firm-idUSKBN1YI099 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-filing/bytedanc...
        libraryatnight 6y ago
        You've hit my concern. Which was very little about spyware, and more about having a platform installed on devices all over the world that the CCP can just slip content into whenever it wants. Russia signed up for FB/Twitter/Reddit accounts and spread confusion and lies, imagine if they owned the platforms how much more targeted and impactful it could be. TikTok seems to impress people with its algorithm serving them content they like, many HNers describe it as addicting even, that sounds like a tool for manipulation (which feels like all the internet is these days anyway, but I digress.) I also don't like the idea of the US banning apps. But I also don't trust people to choose not to invest attention in TikTok. The world's a muddy, messed up, place.
  - stale2002 6y ago
    > then tiktok may simply provide a web version. Will US build some kind of firewall? There is no need to do that. TikTok has significant US offices and operations. All the government would have to do is fine them/arrest them if they refuse to follow the law. Thats how the law works. If you don't follow it, you get fined or arrested.
- rtx 6y ago
  So what is the source of Beijing Biden?
aey 6y ago
Pivot to the pacific was an Obama initiative that was loooong in the making. It doesn’t matter who drives the train, the tracks are already laid.
- starfallg 6y ago
  Yup, it was Trump that tantrumed out of the TPP, which was created as a firewall to China. Because of this, China has been growing increasingly confident, sensing the weakness in this administration and its inability to play geopolitics properly.
- jariel 6y ago
  It matters hugely. Obama's pivot was based on TTP, and generally avoiding direct confrontation with China. Trump's agenda is completely different - ignoring partnership/bilateral approach, and fairly assertively acting against China. But those were also strategies founded in different eras: the TTP was create back when China was still not quite powerful enough to be a dangerous world actor. Now it's more of a 'standoff' situation with unpredictable leadership from Trump. And with only a 4 year horizon after which 'everything changes' on the American side.
  - starfallg 6y ago
    The TTP is in fact direct confrontation, just not overt.
heliophobicdude 6y ago
I think you meant to say ByteDance, the private company that owns and controls TikTok. Conflating the CCP owning and controlling a private company's platform is the propaganda that seems to be spun out this situation. It's also what is causing people to see the app as a threat, ergo, highlighting exceptionalism and a tiny bit of xenophobia.
- s4n1ty 6y ago
  If the CCP demanded data on users from ByteDance, do you honestly think ByteDance would be able to refuse?

What if China stalls and the US administration changes in a few months.

sukilot 6y ago

China doesn't control Android and iOS App stores in US.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

ericmay 6y ago

Don’t think it’ll change with Biden. The rhetoric level may change, but the overall sentiment is quite bipartisan and public opinion of China right now in America is awful. Also, the US can just ban it tomorrow and it’ll disappear.

est 6y ago
then tiktok may simply provide a web version. Will US build some kind of firewall?
- ryanSrich 6y ago
  They already have a web app
- manquer 6y ago
  They will not have remotely the same size of users who will be using the web version. The concern is size of their the control , not that they control at all
- gpm 6y ago
  They'll probably end up banning advertisers from paying them, and TikTok from paying content creators. Sure, Americans will still be able to access the content (over an inferior interface), but TikTok will probably be losing money on American viewers (not necessarily a problem for a propaganda outlet), and TikTok won't be able to incentivize good content.
  - eirini1 6y ago
    in what sense is TikTok a "propaganda outlet"?
    - gpm 6y ago
      In the sense that they have been known to remove discussion that the CCP doesn't like [1], that they've created an environment where people feel the need to talk positively about China to get views [2], and in the sense that they are controlled by a company with close ties to the CCP (like practically every large company in China, harder to cite this but for an example see [3]). [1] https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-25-tiktok-censorship-china.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-25-tiktok-censorship-china.... [2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-users-gush-about-china-hoping-to-boost-views-11592386203 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tiktok-users-gush-about-china-h... [3] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-filing/bytedance-unit-establishes-venture-with-chinese-state-media-firm-idUSKBN1YI099 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bytedance-filing/bytedanc...
      - libraryatnight 6y ago
        You've hit my concern. Which was very little about spyware, and more about having a platform installed on devices all over the world that the CCP can just slip content into whenever it wants. Russia signed up for FB/Twitter/Reddit accounts and spread confusion and lies, imagine if they owned the platforms how much more targeted and impactful it could be. TikTok seems to impress people with its algorithm serving them content they like, many HNers describe it as addicting even, that sounds like a tool for manipulation (which feels like all the internet is these days anyway, but I digress.) I also don't like the idea of the US banning apps. But I also don't trust people to choose not to invest attention in TikTok. The world's a muddy, messed up, place.
- stale2002 6y ago
  > then tiktok may simply provide a web version. Will US build some kind of firewall? There is no need to do that. TikTok has significant US offices and operations. All the government would have to do is fine them/arrest them if they refuse to follow the law. Thats how the law works. If you don't follow it, you get fined or arrested.
rtx 6y ago
So what is the source of Beijing Biden?

aey 6y ago

Pivot to the pacific was an Obama initiative that was loooong in the making. It doesn’t matter who drives the train, the tracks are already laid.

starfallg 6y ago
Yup, it was Trump that tantrumed out of the TPP, which was created as a firewall to China. Because of this, China has been growing increasingly confident, sensing the weakness in this administration and its inability to play geopolitics properly.
jariel 6y ago
It matters hugely. Obama's pivot was based on TTP, and generally avoiding direct confrontation with China. Trump's agenda is completely different - ignoring partnership/bilateral approach, and fairly assertively acting against China. But those were also strategies founded in different eras: the TTP was create back when China was still not quite powerful enough to be a dangerous world actor. Now it's more of a 'standoff' situation with unpredictable leadership from Trump. And with only a 4 year horizon after which 'everything changes' on the American side.
- starfallg 6y ago
  The TTP is in fact direct confrontation, just not overt.

heliophobicdude 6y ago

I think you meant to say ByteDance, the private company that owns and controls TikTok. Conflating the CCP owning and controlling a private company's platform is the propaganda that seems to be spun out this situation. It's also what is causing people to see the app as a threat, ergo, highlighting exceptionalism and a tiny bit of xenophobia.

s4n1ty 6y ago
If the CCP demanded data on users from ByteDance, do you honestly think ByteDance would be able to refuse?