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> I just don’t see a compelling reason to start a [X] project in 2020. Fill in the [X] with your choice of language. It's not like it was 20 years ago when you

> I just don’t see a compelling reason to start a [X] project in 2020. Fill in the [X] with your choice of language. It's not like it was 20 years ago when you chose a language because it was literally the only practical way to do what you needed to do. Unless you have something pretty niche, there's always another language. I don't see a compelling reason not to start a Perl project in 2020. Granted, I don't use the language much, but I think it still has its place.

jefftk 6y ago
Can you give an example of a new project that you think would be right to start with Perl today? Most examples that come to mind for me would make more sense as Python.
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  Anything that already exists in my shell's history as a one-liner, but needs to be upgraded to a reusable script. As far as I know, one liners are not possible in Python. As a matter of fact, I'm not aware of any popular tools that can even hold a candle to Perl's power at the command line. So, my options are: 1. Forget about one-liners. This is the option most people seem to take, and also by far the worst one. In my career I regularly saw my perfectly competent colleagues take minutes or hours to write throwaway scripts to do what I would do in seconds with a Perl one-liner. 2. Use Perl for one-liners, then rewrite the few that graduate to scripts in Python. This one isn't as obviously absurd as the first, but still seems like a rather large waste of time overall. 3. The obvious: paste your one-liner into a new file, add some newlines and whitespace and command-line options and whatever else.
  - jefftk 6y ago
    That makes sense! When I write one liners I tend to build them up in bash, and so when I want them to be reusable I do the same as your (3) but targeting bash. Then when they get at all complicated I rewrite in python.
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      The thing about bash is that it's much less powerful than perl, while at the same time being more prone to surprising, undesirable behavior and write-only code. The worst of both worlds.
      - jefftk 6y ago
        I agree that bash has a lot of flaws, but on the other hand it makes a much better shell than perl. I really value using the same language for ordinary interaction with my computer and automation of very simple tasks.
chriswarbo 6y ago
I'm not sure I understand. The situation for X = Javascript is very different to, say, X = SNOBOL.
- Izkata 6y ago
  Offhand there's also TypeScript, Dart, and CoffeeScript instead of javsScript (kinda, they do compile into it, but are conceptually distinct). GP's point was that we're no longer in the situation where only one language is capable of doing what you want, so there's no "compelling reason" to use a particular one. You can pick the one you like instead of being compelled to a particular one.
  - Izkata 6y ago
    > javsScript Oh wow, that headache I had earlier really got me. I remember thinking "should I capitalize 'script' or not?" since I usually wouldn't but it's the right way to type both TypeScript and CoffeeScript and it looks nicer to be consistent and not technically wrong, but didn't notice "javs" at all. Much too late to edit it now.
  - int_19h 6y ago
    A "compelling reason" is not just about language capabilities. It's also about how easy it is to find developers for said language, what quality is the tooling, how stable is it anticipated to be going forward based on its history etc.

jefftk 6y ago

Can you give an example of a new project that you think would be right to start with Perl today? Most examples that come to mind for me would make more sense as Python.

boring_twenties 6y ago
Anything that already exists in my shell's history as a one-liner, but needs to be upgraded to a reusable script. As far as I know, one liners are not possible in Python. As a matter of fact, I'm not aware of any popular tools that can even hold a candle to Perl's power at the command line. So, my options are: 1. Forget about one-liners. This is the option most people seem to take, and also by far the worst one. In my career I regularly saw my perfectly competent colleagues take minutes or hours to write throwaway scripts to do what I would do in seconds with a Perl one-liner. 2. Use Perl for one-liners, then rewrite the few that graduate to scripts in Python. This one isn't as obviously absurd as the first, but still seems like a rather large waste of time overall. 3. The obvious: paste your one-liner into a new file, add some newlines and whitespace and command-line options and whatever else.
- jefftk 6y ago
  That makes sense! When I write one liners I tend to build them up in bash, and so when I want them to be reusable I do the same as your (3) but targeting bash. Then when they get at all complicated I rewrite in python.
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    The thing about bash is that it's much less powerful than perl, while at the same time being more prone to surprising, undesirable behavior and write-only code. The worst of both worlds.
    - jefftk 6y ago
      I agree that bash has a lot of flaws, but on the other hand it makes a much better shell than perl. I really value using the same language for ordinary interaction with my computer and automation of very simple tasks.

chriswarbo 6y ago

I'm not sure I understand. The situation for X = Javascript is very different to, say, X = SNOBOL.

Izkata 6y ago
Offhand there's also TypeScript, Dart, and CoffeeScript instead of javsScript (kinda, they do compile into it, but are conceptually distinct). GP's point was that we're no longer in the situation where only one language is capable of doing what you want, so there's no "compelling reason" to use a particular one. You can pick the one you like instead of being compelled to a particular one.
- Izkata 6y ago
  > javsScript Oh wow, that headache I had earlier really got me. I remember thinking "should I capitalize 'script' or not?" since I usually wouldn't but it's the right way to type both TypeScript and CoffeeScript and it looks nicer to be consistent and not technically wrong, but didn't notice "javs" at all. Much too late to edit it now.
- int_19h 6y ago
  A "compelling reason" is not just about language capabilities. It's also about how easy it is to find developers for said language, what quality is the tooling, how stable is it anticipated to be going forward based on its history etc.