4 ms·

I said "voters are discussing" and you said "representatives are idiots". I'm not sure you're hearing my POV. Stupid questions and ineffective historical decisi

I said "voters are discussing" and you said "representatives are idiots". I'm not sure you're hearing my POV. Stupid questions and ineffective historical decisions or not, are you suggesting we just throw in the towel based on a snapshot of our government? Can we not vote in better representation once the population tears into these issues and better understand the outcomes we want?

scarface74 6y ago
Yes because out of all the issues that voters care about. I’m sure “breaking up big tech” so you can put an emulator on an iPhone ranks above (hopefully my list equally hits conservative and liberal talking points): - gun control - health care - unemployment - “The War on Christmas” - “those evil immigrants who are taking away your jobs” - banning straws so we stop killing fish - free college education The fact is that the only reason $BigTech is $BigTech is because people voluntarily use their products - especially Apple that has a minority market share and charges a premium. Everyone knows how much money they give Apple/Amazon for their products - unlike Facebook and Google.
- d0gbread 6y ago
  But everyone does NOT know how much data they hand over and how that's used to stifle competition, innovation, and has attributable impact to many of the other items you list - and that's what's being vetted right now. No one has issue with high revenue, that's the reward for winning. We're discussing HOW you win, and if that needs modification. Most people I know are more than capable to read, learn, and form educated opinions on everything on your list as well as this topic. We might be at a stalemate here since you won't be convincing me the discovery process into these issues isn't worth it, and I'm not sure I can convince you to not judge an entire nation by its lowest common denominator, be it extreme left or extreme right, which is what I'm drawing from your previous comment.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Well, we have statistics. We all know how most people vote. https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-healthcare-economy-immigration.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-health... Where do you think the following issues rank in the list? Facebook/Google collecting data. Especially in the case of FB where people willingly give it data. Amazon - effects on small retailers (disclaimer I work at AWS) Apple - A) taking a 30% cut when most of the money comes from play to win games. B) Or that you can’t sign up for subscription services in the app C) you can’t sideload. People have been fine with buying through iTunes/App Store since 2003. We know that many people on the right are single issue voters - religion, gun rights , abortion. There are probably many single issue voters on the left. The only one that I can think of is “not Trump”.
    - d0gbread 6y ago
      More lowest common denominator talk despite these issues being economic which was ranked as the #2 issue in the source you presented. The three options you present are a completely different level of granularity, I'm not clear why you're ranking them. No one is a single issue voter down to Apple's 30% cut, that's just a piece being discussed to better understand the larger issue (or lack thereof, if that's your point of view).
      - scarface74 6y ago
        And people concerned about “the economy” care about geeks not being able to sideload or having to go to a website to subscribe to Netflix. Out of the 5 major tech companies, the only one that has a negative image in the mind of most people is Facebook - and they still use it. The issues that you bring up don’t affect most people. Most people willingly spend their money at Apple and Amazon. People spend more to buy Apple devices despite all of the drawbacks that geeks care about. Besides that, Apple isn’t raising the ire of conservatives about being “unfair” to them or having a negative effect on the election by liberals.
        d0gbread 6y ago
        You keep drawing me back in because you state the issue, but don't seem to see it as an issue - you're not seeing the forest but the trees are obvious. It's not about the workarounds, those are symptoms and some of the reasons this is a thing in the first place. The face that sentiment around Facebook is generally negative but most still use it is testiment to the monopolistic powers these discussions are all about. Could people migrate to Twitter or some other social network? Sure, maybe. Are they? No. Why? Everyone thought Facebook was a blip in a string of Friendster, MySpace, etc -- but boy they've had staying power despite the low switching cost we thought we had on the early internet. How is that not worth exploring to the fullest? We don't actually know if these issues affect most people. What would Amazon be like without their Amazon products crushing their third party partners? What would Facebook be like without WhatsApp and Instagram? What would Apple be like if you could plug your weather app of choice in vs their acquisition and likely destruction of all current iOS weather apps? Will Apple nail the DarkSky integration and make a top notch user experience? Almost certainly -- that's not in question. All of that has a ripple effect through the economy and right now there's purely discovery happening and I still haven't heard one good reason why this discovery process isn't worthwhile, outside of its lack of effectiveness, from the very people who seem to be against any kind of change.

scarface74 6y ago

Yes because out of all the issues that voters care about. I’m sure “breaking up big tech” so you can put an emulator on an iPhone ranks above (hopefully my list equally hits conservative and liberal talking points): - gun control - health care - unemployment - “The War on Christmas” - “those evil immigrants who are taking away your jobs” - banning straws so we stop killing fish - free college education The fact is that the only reason $BigTech is $BigTech is because people voluntarily use their products - especially Apple that has a minority market share and charges a premium. Everyone knows how much money they give Apple/Amazon for their products - unlike Facebook and Google.

d0gbread 6y ago
But everyone does NOT know how much data they hand over and how that's used to stifle competition, innovation, and has attributable impact to many of the other items you list - and that's what's being vetted right now. No one has issue with high revenue, that's the reward for winning. We're discussing HOW you win, and if that needs modification. Most people I know are more than capable to read, learn, and form educated opinions on everything on your list as well as this topic. We might be at a stalemate here since you won't be convincing me the discovery process into these issues isn't worth it, and I'm not sure I can convince you to not judge an entire nation by its lowest common denominator, be it extreme left or extreme right, which is what I'm drawing from your previous comment.
- scarface74 6y ago
  Well, we have statistics. We all know how most people vote. https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-healthcare-economy-immigration.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-health... Where do you think the following issues rank in the list? Facebook/Google collecting data. Especially in the case of FB where people willingly give it data. Amazon - effects on small retailers (disclaimer I work at AWS) Apple - A) taking a 30% cut when most of the money comes from play to win games. B) Or that you can’t sign up for subscription services in the app C) you can’t sideload. People have been fine with buying through iTunes/App Store since 2003. We know that many people on the right are single issue voters - religion, gun rights , abortion. There are probably many single issue voters on the left. The only one that I can think of is “not Trump”.
  - d0gbread 6y ago
    More lowest common denominator talk despite these issues being economic which was ranked as the #2 issue in the source you presented. The three options you present are a completely different level of granularity, I'm not clear why you're ranking them. No one is a single issue voter down to Apple's 30% cut, that's just a piece being discussed to better understand the larger issue (or lack thereof, if that's your point of view).
    - scarface74 6y ago
      And people concerned about “the economy” care about geeks not being able to sideload or having to go to a website to subscribe to Netflix. Out of the 5 major tech companies, the only one that has a negative image in the mind of most people is Facebook - and they still use it. The issues that you bring up don’t affect most people. Most people willingly spend their money at Apple and Amazon. People spend more to buy Apple devices despite all of the drawbacks that geeks care about. Besides that, Apple isn’t raising the ire of conservatives about being “unfair” to them or having a negative effect on the election by liberals.
      - d0gbread 6y ago
        You keep drawing me back in because you state the issue, but don't seem to see it as an issue - you're not seeing the forest but the trees are obvious. It's not about the workarounds, those are symptoms and some of the reasons this is a thing in the first place. The face that sentiment around Facebook is generally negative but most still use it is testiment to the monopolistic powers these discussions are all about. Could people migrate to Twitter or some other social network? Sure, maybe. Are they? No. Why? Everyone thought Facebook was a blip in a string of Friendster, MySpace, etc -- but boy they've had staying power despite the low switching cost we thought we had on the early internet. How is that not worth exploring to the fullest? We don't actually know if these issues affect most people. What would Amazon be like without their Amazon products crushing their third party partners? What would Facebook be like without WhatsApp and Instagram? What would Apple be like if you could plug your weather app of choice in vs their acquisition and likely destruction of all current iOS weather apps? Will Apple nail the DarkSky integration and make a top notch user experience? Almost certainly -- that's not in question. All of that has a ripple effect through the economy and right now there's purely discovery happening and I still haven't heard one good reason why this discovery process isn't worthwhile, outside of its lack of effectiveness, from the very people who seem to be against any kind of change.