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"What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen?" Warring States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_St

by Leary 6y ago

"What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen?" Warring States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period Chu-Han Contention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention Yellow Turban Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion Three Kingdoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Northern and Southern dynasties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynasties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynastie... An Lushan Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdoms_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdom... Mongol Invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China Ming Qing Transition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing Taiping Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion Second Sino-Japanese War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

khuey 6y ago
Do you really think that Europe and other parts of the world have not had wars?
- Leary 6y ago
  Why do you think wars occur? Political fragmentation. Ever heard of Pax Romana?
- justinzollars 6y ago
  China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history.
  - pell 6y ago
    You commented this twice already as some sort of universal truth. But in fact the region known as modern-day China had one major conflict after another like they occurred in any other region in the globe. Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization?
    - La1n 6y ago
      >at least 45 million Not at least, 45 is on the high end of estimates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
      - pell 6y ago
        From your own Wikipedia link: >Frank Dikötter, Chair Professor of Humanities at the University of Hong Kong and the author of Mao's Great Famine, estimated that at least 45 million people died from starvation, overwork and state violence during the Great Leap Forward, claiming his findings to be based on access to recently opened local and provincial party archives.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
      > Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization? Yes? I mean, the word "civilization" just makes reference to a complex society with certain societal and governmental structures. A civilization can be peaceful but it can also be brutal. Many (if not all) historical civilizations started wars, took slaves, forced people to adopt certain religions or customs, or made outright genocides, and that doesn't make them less of a civilization.
    - justinzollars 6y ago
      I recommend reading "On China" which describes this concept thoroughly.

by Leary 6y ago

khuey 6y ago

Do you really think that Europe and other parts of the world have not had wars?

Leary 6y ago
Why do you think wars occur? Political fragmentation. Ever heard of Pax Romana?
justinzollars 6y ago
China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history.
- pell 6y ago
  You commented this twice already as some sort of universal truth. But in fact the region known as modern-day China had one major conflict after another like they occurred in any other region in the globe. Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization?
  - La1n 6y ago
    >at least 45 million Not at least, 45 is on the high end of estimates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
    - pell 6y ago
      From your own Wikipedia link: >Frank Dikötter, Chair Professor of Humanities at the University of Hong Kong and the author of Mao's Great Famine, estimated that at least 45 million people died from starvation, overwork and state violence during the Great Leap Forward, claiming his findings to be based on access to recently opened local and provincial party archives.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 6y ago
    > Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization? Yes? I mean, the word "civilization" just makes reference to a complex society with certain societal and governmental structures. A civilization can be peaceful but it can also be brutal. Many (if not all) historical civilizations started wars, took slaves, forced people to adopt certain religions or customs, or made outright genocides, and that doesn't make them less of a civilization.
  - justinzollars 6y ago
    I recommend reading "On China" which describes this concept thoroughly.