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> we ended up with mumble rap > It's samey as hell and stagnant I don't follow rap, but these two claims seem contradictory. Is the first not evidence of evol

> we ended up with mumble rap > It's samey as hell and stagnant I don't follow rap, but these two claims seem contradictory. Is the first not evidence of evolution in the genre, if in a direction you don't like?

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago
No one of any value enjoys mumble rap, don't kid yourself
daodedickinson 6y ago
I think the claim is that mumble rap dominates this new ecosystem, that this ecosystem is less diverse, and that this ecosystem does not seem to be changing significantly. I have no idea about Spotify or mumble rap but that's how they might not contradict.
mosselman 6y ago
If anything mumble rap is a devolution. Add auto-tune to this and you are left with a worthless corpus of shitty rap, hip-hop and also pop music. It is samey, because everybody does the same thing. You can’t really differentiate music by different performers anymore. Each song is the same. There used to be a cost to producing music; you needed a studio, producer, physical copies of the samples you wanted to use (in case of most rap), etc. Now you can just boot your computer and use one of the many digital studios. It is a blessing in some ways, but a curse in most I think. Quality is by no means the element by which (popular) music is judged. It is all about presentation, which somehow means the most deplorable people get the most praise. Note: I am talking about what is mainstream and played on still high quality radio. I don’t listen to rap stations and luckily there are stations that have a good selection of older music and only play some of the new stuff. The new stuff there is already worse than music from the past though. If you look at the rap and hip-hop scene however, the quality has plummeted even more. It is just one homogeneous soup of crappy, lazy music. In no way like the music of 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G and Outkast but still all the same as the other new crap.
- enneff 6y ago
  You’re just saying the same things older people have been saying about new music since time immemorial.
  - mixmastamyk 6y ago
    That's true and yet the decreasing revenue, monetization, and relentless cost-cutting is real as well.
    - wyattpeak 6y ago
      Concerns about making money are not going to destroy art. Almost all art through history has been made by people trying to make a living, not trying to express for its own sake. We don't have a thousand years of portraiture of the elite because artists were just absolutely convinced that was the ultimate expression of the medium.
      - shi314 6y ago
        You should say mainstream art in any era.
      - mixmastamyk 6y ago
        The lack of discoverability and gatekeeping (to some extent) ensures that unpromoted art will not be known. When did the last non-supported musician hit it big? Artist support and development is important as well.
  - mosselman 6y ago
    Perhaps, yet: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/what-these-grammy-songs-tell-us-about-the-loudness-wars.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/what-these-grammy...
  - loudtieblahblah 6y ago
    Generalizing criticisms as the same as past criticisms is a sidestep rather than a point.

z3ncyberpunk 6y ago

No one of any value enjoys mumble rap, don't kid yourself

daodedickinson 6y ago

I think the claim is that mumble rap dominates this new ecosystem, that this ecosystem is less diverse, and that this ecosystem does not seem to be changing significantly. I have no idea about Spotify or mumble rap but that's how they might not contradict.

mosselman 6y ago

If anything mumble rap is a devolution. Add auto-tune to this and you are left with a worthless corpus of shitty rap, hip-hop and also pop music. It is samey, because everybody does the same thing. You can’t really differentiate music by different performers anymore. Each song is the same. There used to be a cost to producing music; you needed a studio, producer, physical copies of the samples you wanted to use (in case of most rap), etc. Now you can just boot your computer and use one of the many digital studios. It is a blessing in some ways, but a curse in most I think. Quality is by no means the element by which (popular) music is judged. It is all about presentation, which somehow means the most deplorable people get the most praise. Note: I am talking about what is mainstream and played on still high quality radio. I don’t listen to rap stations and luckily there are stations that have a good selection of older music and only play some of the new stuff. The new stuff there is already worse than music from the past though. If you look at the rap and hip-hop scene however, the quality has plummeted even more. It is just one homogeneous soup of crappy, lazy music. In no way like the music of 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G and Outkast but still all the same as the other new crap.

enneff 6y ago
You’re just saying the same things older people have been saying about new music since time immemorial.
- mixmastamyk 6y ago
  That's true and yet the decreasing revenue, monetization, and relentless cost-cutting is real as well.
  - wyattpeak 6y ago
    Concerns about making money are not going to destroy art. Almost all art through history has been made by people trying to make a living, not trying to express for its own sake. We don't have a thousand years of portraiture of the elite because artists were just absolutely convinced that was the ultimate expression of the medium.
    - shi314 6y ago
      You should say mainstream art in any era.
    - mixmastamyk 6y ago
      The lack of discoverability and gatekeeping (to some extent) ensures that unpromoted art will not be known. When did the last non-supported musician hit it big? Artist support and development is important as well.
- mosselman 6y ago
  Perhaps, yet: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/what-these-grammy-songs-tell-us-about-the-loudness-wars.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/what-these-grammy...
- loudtieblahblah 6y ago
  Generalizing criticisms as the same as past criticisms is a sidestep rather than a point.