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That's rather ridiculous. The US has seen massive social instability over the past 400 years. The Revolution, the Civil War, slavery and the Slave Trade, the Gr

That's rather ridiculous. The US has seen massive social instability over the past 400 years. The Revolution, the Civil War, slavery and the Slave Trade, the Great Depression, etc. And the founders of the US, being mostly European, were descended from people who lived through absolutely catastrophic social instability in Europe. Never-ending wars over religion and territory and on and on... What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen? EDIT: I suppose the Great Leap Forward was an example of "real chaos", to an extent we haven't seen in the West. But where was China's 4,000 years of history to stop the deaths of millions of their own?

Leary 6y ago
"What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen?" Warring States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period Chu-Han Contention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention Yellow Turban Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion Three Kingdoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Northern and Southern dynasties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynasties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynastie... An Lushan Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdoms_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdom... Mongol Invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China Ming Qing Transition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing Taiping Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion Second Sino-Japanese War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
- khuey 6y ago
  Do you really think that Europe and other parts of the world have not had wars?
  - Leary 6y ago
    Why do you think wars occur? Political fragmentation. Ever heard of Pax Romana?
  - justinzollars 6y ago
    China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history.
    - pell 6y ago
      You commented this twice already as some sort of universal truth. But in fact the region known as modern-day China had one major conflict after another like they occurred in any other region in the globe. Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization?
      - La1n 6y ago
        >at least 45 million Not at least, 45 is on the high end of estimates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
        pell 6y ago
        From your own Wikipedia link: >Frank Dikötter, Chair Professor of Humanities at the University of Hong Kong and the author of Mao's Great Famine, estimated that at least 45 million people died from starvation, overwork and state violence during the Great Leap Forward, claiming his findings to be based on access to recently opened local and provincial party archives.
949throaway2020 6y ago
>What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen? This is ill-informed and easily proven wrong. I'm no China apologist, but the Chinese have suffered the worst human disasters in history. Let's go down the list of top 10 anthropogenic disasters by geometric mean death toll and count the causalities in China [1]: 1. 2nd World War estimated 70 million dead, 17.5 million dead in China [2] 2. Three Kingdom War 38 million dead, all Chinese 3. Mongol Conquests 35 million dead and transition from Song to Yuan. Chinese population registers drop from 140 million to 70 million. [3] 4. European Colonization of the Americas 35 million dead, no Chinese dead 5. Taiping Rebellion 35 million dead, all Chinese 6 Red Eyebrows Rebellion 30 million dead, all Chinese 7. Muslim conquest of India 41 million dead, no Chinese 8. Ming Conquest of Yuan 30 million dead, all Chinese 9. Qing conquest of Ming 25 million dead, all Chinese 10. Second Sino-Japanese War 22 million dead, mostly Chinese and as a bonus: 11. An Lushan Rebellion 21 million dead, all Chinese Let's count the bodies. Total dead in 11 conflicts: about 380 million dead Chinese dead: about 200-220 million dead. The Chinese are in a whole other ball park in terms of historical suffering. Nothing in American history compares to even a civil war most Americans have never heard of, like the An Lushan rebellion. For perspective, "only" 700,000 American soldiers died in the US Civil War and there were no accounts of civilian casualties of similar magnitude. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China
- winstonmanor89 6y ago
  Uhh what about European or the Middle east or any other part of the world
  - Neekerer 6y ago
    What about them? GP is conveying the scale of just wars, this isn't including natural disasters that have ripped through China. What are some comparable things to happen in europe and the middle east?

Leary 6y ago

"What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen?" Warring States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period Chu-Han Contention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention Yellow Turban Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion Three Kingdoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Northern and Southern dynasties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynasties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynastie... An Lushan Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdoms_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdom... Mongol Invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China Ming Qing Transition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing Taiping Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion Second Sino-Japanese War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

khuey 6y ago
Do you really think that Europe and other parts of the world have not had wars?
- Leary 6y ago
  Why do you think wars occur? Political fragmentation. Ever heard of Pax Romana?
- justinzollars 6y ago
  China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history.
  - pell 6y ago
    You commented this twice already as some sort of universal truth. But in fact the region known as modern-day China had one major conflict after another like they occurred in any other region in the globe. Also what does it mean to "maintain" civilization when at least 45 million people died under Mao due to famine, overwork and state violence? Is putting Uighurs in concentration camps "maintaining" civilization?
    - La1n 6y ago
      >at least 45 million Not at least, 45 is on the high end of estimates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine
      - pell 6y ago
        From your own Wikipedia link: >Frank Dikötter, Chair Professor of Humanities at the University of Hong Kong and the author of Mao's Great Famine, estimated that at least 45 million people died from starvation, overwork and state violence during the Great Leap Forward, claiming his findings to be based on access to recently opened local and provincial party archives.

949throaway2020 6y ago

>What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen? This is ill-informed and easily proven wrong. I'm no China apologist, but the Chinese have suffered the worst human disasters in history. Let's go down the list of top 10 anthropogenic disasters by geometric mean death toll and count the causalities in China [1]: 1. 2nd World War estimated 70 million dead, 17.5 million dead in China [2] 2. Three Kingdom War 38 million dead, all Chinese 3. Mongol Conquests 35 million dead and transition from Song to Yuan. Chinese population registers drop from 140 million to 70 million. [3] 4. European Colonization of the Americas 35 million dead, no Chinese dead 5. Taiping Rebellion 35 million dead, all Chinese 6 Red Eyebrows Rebellion 30 million dead, all Chinese 7. Muslim conquest of India 41 million dead, no Chinese 8. Ming Conquest of Yuan 30 million dead, all Chinese 9. Qing conquest of Ming 25 million dead, all Chinese 10. Second Sino-Japanese War 22 million dead, mostly Chinese and as a bonus: 11. An Lushan Rebellion 21 million dead, all Chinese Let's count the bodies. Total dead in 11 conflicts: about 380 million dead Chinese dead: about 200-220 million dead. The Chinese are in a whole other ball park in terms of historical suffering. Nothing in American history compares to even a civil war most Americans have never heard of, like the An Lushan rebellion. For perspective, "only" 700,000 American soldiers died in the US Civil War and there were no accounts of civilian casualties of similar magnitude. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_deaths_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Total_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_China

winstonmanor89 6y ago
Uhh what about European or the Middle east or any other part of the world
- Neekerer 6y ago
  What about them? GP is conveying the scale of just wars, this isn't including natural disasters that have ripped through China. What are some comparable things to happen in europe and the middle east?