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> The jobs require you to build things which hurt people for people who only care about money. Can you please elaborate on this bit more? How is FANAG hurting

by duhast 6y ago

> The jobs require you to build things which hurt people for people who only care about money. Can you please elaborate on this bit more? How is FANAG hurting people?

onion2k 6y ago
Eroding privacy, driving "attention economy" addictions, promoting the shallowest content, influencing politics, devastating small businesses, and ruining mental health mainly.
- username90 6y ago
  Well everyone I knew at Google saw those problems and explicitly worked to improve those things. I didn't see a single message or objective to hurt those things. So I don't see how you have to compromise your ideals to work there, most people don't and Google encourage people to work to fix those problems so Google gladly welcomes them.
  - m463 6y ago
    But Google tracks people - their primary business is to identify individuals, and follow their activities online and in the physical world. This information is then used to judge, to predict, to sell and more. Their profits are enormous, so useful new services are created, but coincidentally they involve new ways to track.
  - trashtester 6y ago
    In a coal power corporation, you will not find anyone who actively promotes pollution. It is merely a side effect of their normal business.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    I'm not suggesting that people at any of the FAANG companies do those things on purpose. Those aren't the company goals. Even I wouldn't go that far. I'm saying that those things are outcomes of building systems to do mass surveillance to drive advertising or sell phones or broadcast information. People at FAANG companies may well strive to minimise the negative impact of their activities but it clearly doesn't work very well given, well, /me gestures broadly at the tech industry.
  - gjm11 6y ago
    I think this makes it worse. You have companies full of smart people working hard who want to make the world a better place -- and the result is still eroding privacy, driving "attention economy" addictions, promoting the shallowest content, influencing politics, devastating small businesses, and ruining mental health. Not because that's what some of the people working there want. (In that case you could at least think "OK, I'll work extra smart and hard, get to the top, and change things for the better.") But because that's what the system as a whole produces, even when the individuals in it don't want that. See also: Slate Star Codex's "Meditations on Moloch", https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .
  - chongli 6y ago
    Some people take longer than others to fall into disillusionment. Some never do. The people who work at a place are generally the ones who survived this selection process. The disillusioned have all walked away from Omelas [1]. [1] https://www.utilitarianism.com/nu/omelas.pdf https://www.utilitarianism.com/nu/omelas.pdf

by duhast 6y ago

> The jobs require you to build things which hurt people for people who only care about money. Can you please elaborate on this bit more? How is FANAG hurting people?

onion2k 6y ago

Eroding privacy, driving "attention economy" addictions, promoting the shallowest content, influencing politics, devastating small businesses, and ruining mental health mainly.

username90 6y ago
Well everyone I knew at Google saw those problems and explicitly worked to improve those things. I didn't see a single message or objective to hurt those things. So I don't see how you have to compromise your ideals to work there, most people don't and Google encourage people to work to fix those problems so Google gladly welcomes them.
- m463 6y ago
  But Google tracks people - their primary business is to identify individuals, and follow their activities online and in the physical world. This information is then used to judge, to predict, to sell and more. Their profits are enormous, so useful new services are created, but coincidentally they involve new ways to track.
- trashtester 6y ago
  In a coal power corporation, you will not find anyone who actively promotes pollution. It is merely a side effect of their normal business.
- onion2k 6y ago
  I'm not suggesting that people at any of the FAANG companies do those things on purpose. Those aren't the company goals. Even I wouldn't go that far. I'm saying that those things are outcomes of building systems to do mass surveillance to drive advertising or sell phones or broadcast information. People at FAANG companies may well strive to minimise the negative impact of their activities but it clearly doesn't work very well given, well, /me gestures broadly at the tech industry.
- gjm11 6y ago
  I think this makes it worse. You have companies full of smart people working hard who want to make the world a better place -- and the result is still eroding privacy, driving "attention economy" addictions, promoting the shallowest content, influencing politics, devastating small businesses, and ruining mental health. Not because that's what some of the people working there want. (In that case you could at least think "OK, I'll work extra smart and hard, get to the top, and change things for the better.") But because that's what the system as a whole produces, even when the individuals in it don't want that. See also: Slate Star Codex's "Meditations on Moloch", https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/ .
- chongli 6y ago
  Some people take longer than others to fall into disillusionment. Some never do. The people who work at a place are generally the ones who survived this selection process. The disillusioned have all walked away from Omelas [1]. [1] https://www.utilitarianism.com/nu/omelas.pdf https://www.utilitarianism.com/nu/omelas.pdf