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After reading many books on China I learned China values social stability over everything. In its 4,000 year history they have seen the dangers of social instab
by justinzollars 6y ago
After reading many books on China I learned China values social stability over everything. In its 4,000 year history they have seen the dangers of social instability. We are a very young country and haven't seen what real chaos can look like.
(These ideas are from Henry Kissinger's on China, Destined for War by Graham T. Allison and The China Dream by Liu Mingfu)
- khuey 6y agoThis is a typical orientalist take. Most of the world is well aware of "the dangers of social instability".
- Ericson2314 6y agoYeah, if you speak of a nation as an single individual, I've got news for you, you're doing it wrong.
- justinzollars 6y ago> This is a typical orientalist take. Yes. As I mentioned these ideas are not mine but advanced by 3 books which explain the Chinese perspective. These books are bipartisan and multinational and explain this principal. * Henry Kissinger's on China (Republican) * Destined for War by Graham T. Allison (Democrat - Joe Biden recommended book) * The China Dream by Liu Mingfu (Chinese PLA General)
- khuey 6y agoYou should look up what "orientalist" means before embracing the label. It is not a compliment.
- justinzollars 6y agoLiu Mingfu is a Chinese PLA General residing in China.
- brbsix 6y agoI've never understood why people espouse China's "4000 year history". The government purged nearly all aspects of traditional Chinese society during the Cultural Revolution. If you want to be reminded of China's history, you travel to Taiwan. Even practitioners of Chinese traditional medicine tend to study overseas in Japan.
- free_rms 6y agoThis is incredibly inaccurate. You work in tech, right? Ever run this take by your Chinese coworkers? Ask them about their families' connection to Chinese tradition?
- khuey 6y agoThat "X thousand years of history" is a myth Chinese people believe about themselves doesn't make it true or a useful way of understanding anything.
- free_rms 6y agoIt's... literally true, you can look up photos of turtle shells with characters etched into them on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean they're perfect or blessed but they've definitely been there the whole time.
- khuey 6y agoStonehenge is also between 4 and 5 thousand years old but it's not going to tell you anything about the mystical traditions of the people of the British Isles.
- justinzollars 6y agoThe difference between the West and China is that China has been able to maintain its civilization state and it has a continuous history. The West's history is discontinuous
- sebmellen 6y agoThat's rather ridiculous. The US has seen massive social instability over the past 400 years. The Revolution, the Civil War, slavery and the Slave Trade, the Great Depression, etc. And the founders of the US, being mostly European, were descended from people who lived through absolutely catastrophic social instability in Europe. Never-ending wars over religion and territory and on and on... What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen? EDIT: I suppose the Great Leap Forward was an example of "real chaos", to an extent we haven't seen in the West. But where was China's 4,000 years of history to stop the deaths of millions of their own?
- Leary 6y ago"What "real chaos" has "China" (which is, by the way, nowhere homogenous) seen that we have not seen?" Warring States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period Chu-Han Contention: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu%E2%80%93Han_Contention Yellow Turban Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Turban_Rebellion Three Kingdoms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Kingdoms Northern and Southern dynasties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynasties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_and_Southern_dynastie... An Lushan Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Lushan_Rebellion Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdoms_period https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Dynasties_and_Ten_Kingdom... Mongol Invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Song_China Ming Qing Transition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transition_from_Ming_to_Qing Taiping Rebellion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Rebellion Second Sino-Japanese War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War
- khuey 6y agoDo you really think that Europe and other parts of the world have not had wars?
- throwaway189262 6y agoDictatorships value stability above anything else. Because once you have absolute control, the only real danger to losing it is civil war. China has had tons of bloody wars just like the West. And people have been living in Europe for thousands of years too. The "4000 year history" is a CCP thing they sell to the populace to make their dictatorship seem more legitimate. It's pretty stupid, most cultures have been around for at least 1000 years.
- justinzollars 6y agoI'm sorry you feel offended by these ideas. I suggest you read any of the 3 books I referenced that explain this Chinese principal. The books are by Republican, Democratic and CCP authors. Differences between civilizations can feel offensive.
- throwaway189262 6y agoSounds like you're the one offended. Great 4000 year history of China is CCP party line. Reading neutral sources you'll find it's more nuanced than that. There's some evidence remaining that China was once a collection of societies. Notably language. The CCP insists that all of China speaks Mandarin, but thats only the case since the cultural revolution. Chinese writing is indeed nearly universal. But spoken language once had many dialects, and still does to an extent. These dialects are sometimes mutually unintelligible. If it wasn't for CCP party line they would be considered different languages, as part of Chinese language family. Much like many of the southern Asian languages are different languages that cluster together.
- QuesnayJr 6y agoDo you know who else has a 4,000 year history of instability, even greater instability? Europe. The height of centralized political stability in Europe was the Roman Empire, or maybe Napoleon. Yet you don't hear many Europeans saying "We need to bring back the Roman Empire", or "We need to bring back Napoleon". China values social stability because they have a dictatorship for whom social stability is a convenient idea to push. Ironically, the last serious bout of instability was the Cultural Revolution, which was a entirely a product of conflicts within the dictatorship.
- dgut 6y agoComparing the Roman Empire to Napoleon who lived fifty years and only invaded then briefly ruled neighboring European countries under heavy turmoil is quite a stretch.