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It's Jews vs Arabs. And this isn't my opinion, this is precisely how the conflict is perceived by both the Jews and Arabs involved. I'm not really making any st

by dagav 6y ago

It's Jews vs Arabs. And this isn't my opinion, this is precisely how the conflict is perceived by both the Jews and Arabs involved. I'm not really making any statements about the article, but I tend to believe my ancestors over articles I find online, considering the sheer amount of anti-Israel sentiment that exists in the world. And the Arabs raiding their villages weren't Bedouins, they were Palestinian Arabs who weren't happy to have them as their neighbors. This is why the Haganah was created: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haganah

apta 6y ago
> It's Jews vs Arabs No it's not. It's Zionist occupiers vs. the natives. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hs69hs/jewish_people_marching_in_new_york_city_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hs69hs/jewi...
- onyva 6y ago
  Using “Zionism” to describe the regime in Israel is misleading. Hertzl was an emancipated Western Jew who was on a personal mission to reinvent the idea of Jews like himself. Western, educated Sephardi. Not Eastern Europeans living in the Middle Ages, which he was culturally and emotionally detached from. Most Sephardi Jews would not marry Eastern European nor consider them to be Jewish at this stage. Hertzl wanted to take on a colonial project to prove the world Jews can be as assertive and proactive as other people. At this stage of history it was to colonize something. He didn’t see Israel-Palestine as a destination nor was he religious. He wasn’t even aware of the activities of the failed “lovers of Zion” project of couple of Russians that tried revive a Jewish homeland in Ottoman Palestine. What happens next was a takeover and repurposing of his agenda, one the two movements “merged”, which eventually will coincide with the holocaust. Ps Ben Gurion’s treatment of diaspora Jews, ruppin’s race pyramid and eugenics plan for the Jews, and other “anecdotes” are beyond the scope of this discussion, but should be remembered. There’s nothing saintly about pre-state Israel, nor innocent.
  - apta 6y ago
    That makes sense. It doesn't make Hertzl any less involved nor less scum for choosing to occupy Palestine, regardless of his motives. > Ps Ben Gurion’s treatment of diaspora Jews, ruppin’s race pyramid and eugenics plan for the Jews, and other “anecdotes” are beyond the scope of this discussion, but should be remembered. Thanks, I'll look that up. > There’s nothing saintly about pre-state Israel, nor innocent. Which the current regime of course denies and tries to rewrite history to say otherwise.
    - onyva 6y ago
      Hertzl didn't choose to occupy anything. His main objective, and the one he fought off the "lovers of zion" over, was a legitimate internationally recognized place for Eastern European "Jews". This was in fact the most serious rift between Hertzl and the Russians.When he died in 1904, the zionist movement was re-purposed for something he never envisioned. In principal, Western Jews like Hertzl himself did not plan to go anywhere. They saw themselves as Europeans were already emancipated since the first half of the 19th century and integrated (which led to growing anti-Semitism in Western Europe, but that's a different story). Hertzl was secular and agnostic. Very different circumstances to those in the southern part of the Russian Empire (Pale of Settlement).
      - apta 6y ago
        So what do we call the ideology that drives the murderous occupying state that exists today under the name of "Israel"?
        onyva 6y ago
        fascism. Nationalism... Zionism is not an ideology. Zionism died with Hertzl and was already twisted in his life by the Russian faction of the Zionist Congress. Hertzl search was for a legitimate and internationally recognized place, and it didn’t have to be Israel/Palestine. BTW, WHAT DO YOU call it when Arab leaders like AL-ASAD and AL-SISI, to name a few, kill and torture thousands of their own people, and people like you still find the energy to only reach their keyboard to criticize Israel? Is it fatigue (since you wasted so much time on Israel) or hypocrisy?
onyva 6y ago
You really think highschool Israeli propaganda is gonna cut it? There are neonazi Eastern European “Jews” at the WH, and your PM, a polish guy, is associating with neonazis in Europe, because he knows the liberal west will not continue to support the crimes his administration is carrying in the occupied territories. We’ve long passed “Hagana” and other myths. At least you didn’t link the Hebrew Wikipedia which has been taken over by a nationalistic club of one who’s busy rewriting Israel’s history. About bedouins, you were talking about the end of the 19th century. At this stage there wasn’t a Palestinian national movement as such. When there was one and following the failed uprise in the 1930s, Palestinians in fact clashed with there own elite, in what was a civil war between the established leadership and a mob. Jews just happened to be in the way.

by dagav 6y ago

apta 6y ago

> It's Jews vs Arabs No it's not. It's Zionist occupiers vs. the natives. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hs69hs/jewish_people_marching_in_new_york_city_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hs69hs/jewi...

onyva 6y ago
Using “Zionism” to describe the regime in Israel is misleading. Hertzl was an emancipated Western Jew who was on a personal mission to reinvent the idea of Jews like himself. Western, educated Sephardi. Not Eastern Europeans living in the Middle Ages, which he was culturally and emotionally detached from. Most Sephardi Jews would not marry Eastern European nor consider them to be Jewish at this stage. Hertzl wanted to take on a colonial project to prove the world Jews can be as assertive and proactive as other people. At this stage of history it was to colonize something. He didn’t see Israel-Palestine as a destination nor was he religious. He wasn’t even aware of the activities of the failed “lovers of Zion” project of couple of Russians that tried revive a Jewish homeland in Ottoman Palestine. What happens next was a takeover and repurposing of his agenda, one the two movements “merged”, which eventually will coincide with the holocaust. Ps Ben Gurion’s treatment of diaspora Jews, ruppin’s race pyramid and eugenics plan for the Jews, and other “anecdotes” are beyond the scope of this discussion, but should be remembered. There’s nothing saintly about pre-state Israel, nor innocent.
- apta 6y ago
  That makes sense. It doesn't make Hertzl any less involved nor less scum for choosing to occupy Palestine, regardless of his motives. > Ps Ben Gurion’s treatment of diaspora Jews, ruppin’s race pyramid and eugenics plan for the Jews, and other “anecdotes” are beyond the scope of this discussion, but should be remembered. Thanks, I'll look that up. > There’s nothing saintly about pre-state Israel, nor innocent. Which the current regime of course denies and tries to rewrite history to say otherwise.
  - onyva 6y ago
    Hertzl didn't choose to occupy anything. His main objective, and the one he fought off the "lovers of zion" over, was a legitimate internationally recognized place for Eastern European "Jews". This was in fact the most serious rift between Hertzl and the Russians.When he died in 1904, the zionist movement was re-purposed for something he never envisioned. In principal, Western Jews like Hertzl himself did not plan to go anywhere. They saw themselves as Europeans were already emancipated since the first half of the 19th century and integrated (which led to growing anti-Semitism in Western Europe, but that's a different story). Hertzl was secular and agnostic. Very different circumstances to those in the southern part of the Russian Empire (Pale of Settlement).
    - apta 6y ago
      So what do we call the ideology that drives the murderous occupying state that exists today under the name of "Israel"?
      - onyva 6y ago
        fascism. Nationalism... Zionism is not an ideology. Zionism died with Hertzl and was already twisted in his life by the Russian faction of the Zionist Congress. Hertzl search was for a legitimate and internationally recognized place, and it didn’t have to be Israel/Palestine. BTW, WHAT DO YOU call it when Arab leaders like AL-ASAD and AL-SISI, to name a few, kill and torture thousands of their own people, and people like you still find the energy to only reach their keyboard to criticize Israel? Is it fatigue (since you wasted so much time on Israel) or hypocrisy?

onyva 6y ago

You really think highschool Israeli propaganda is gonna cut it? There are neonazi Eastern European “Jews” at the WH, and your PM, a polish guy, is associating with neonazis in Europe, because he knows the liberal west will not continue to support the crimes his administration is carrying in the occupied territories. We’ve long passed “Hagana” and other myths. At least you didn’t link the Hebrew Wikipedia which has been taken over by a nationalistic club of one who’s busy rewriting Israel’s history. About bedouins, you were talking about the end of the 19th century. At this stage there wasn’t a Palestinian national movement as such. When there was one and following the failed uprise in the 1930s, Palestinians in fact clashed with there own elite, in what was a civil war between the established leadership and a mob. Jews just happened to be in the way.