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> Why are you sure it is a nation. NATO is by no means an uncontroversial entity. Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished.

> Why are you sure it is a nation. NATO is by no means an uncontroversial entity. Millions of peace activists—including my self—would love to see it abolished. I wonder how so-called "peace activists" look at Russia's invasion of Ukraine and still don't quite grasp the importance of NATO.

runarberg 6y ago
This is answered below. In short: NATO did not stop the annexation of Crimea.
- rumanator 6y ago
  What? Are you serious? Do you also believe everyone should just disband their local police force because a neighbouring town experienced a crime? I would understand using Ukraine's example to argue the exact opposite, but for some reason you believe that a first sign of aggression justifies dismantling all defenses.
  - runarberg 6y ago
    Yes I am... What is the point of having a military alliance to protect against foreign invasions if that military alliance won’t protect you from invasion?
    - vbsd 6y ago
      This line of thinking would be very relevant if Ukraine was a member of NATO. But since it’s not, could you elaborate? Which alliance do you mean?
      - runarberg 6y ago
        You are moving the goal post a little bit. Ukraine is bordered to the west with all NATO members. They have been aspiring NATO members since the end of the cold war, currently hold the status of “intensified dialogue”. European nations have expressed interests in protecting the Ukrainian borders. It was in the direct interest of NATO to uphold that, and Ukraine is willing to receive that help. There is precedent of NATO interfering in armed conflicts outside of the borders of their member states. They did so in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo during the Yugoslav wars. They also did so in Afghanistan and Libya (come to think of it; NATO has demonstrated it self to be more like an invasion pact then a defensive one). Why didn’t they act in Ukraine? You tell me. Now again, there are non-intervention ways of punishing Russia for this blatant violation of international treaties, such as boycotts or sanctions. However all of the 10 NATO members that qualified opted to participate in the 2018 FIFA world cup hosted by hostile Russia. How is that for solidarity?
        deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

runarberg 6y ago

This is answered below. In short: NATO did not stop the annexation of Crimea.

rumanator 6y ago
What? Are you serious? Do you also believe everyone should just disband their local police force because a neighbouring town experienced a crime? I would understand using Ukraine's example to argue the exact opposite, but for some reason you believe that a first sign of aggression justifies dismantling all defenses.
- runarberg 6y ago
  Yes I am... What is the point of having a military alliance to protect against foreign invasions if that military alliance won’t protect you from invasion?
  - vbsd 6y ago
    This line of thinking would be very relevant if Ukraine was a member of NATO. But since it’s not, could you elaborate? Which alliance do you mean?
    - runarberg 6y ago
      You are moving the goal post a little bit. Ukraine is bordered to the west with all NATO members. They have been aspiring NATO members since the end of the cold war, currently hold the status of “intensified dialogue”. European nations have expressed interests in protecting the Ukrainian borders. It was in the direct interest of NATO to uphold that, and Ukraine is willing to receive that help. There is precedent of NATO interfering in armed conflicts outside of the borders of their member states. They did so in Bosnia and Herzegovina and Kosovo during the Yugoslav wars. They also did so in Afghanistan and Libya (come to think of it; NATO has demonstrated it self to be more like an invasion pact then a defensive one). Why didn’t they act in Ukraine? You tell me. Now again, there are non-intervention ways of punishing Russia for this blatant violation of international treaties, such as boycotts or sanctions. However all of the 10 NATO members that qualified opted to participate in the 2018 FIFA world cup hosted by hostile Russia. How is that for solidarity?
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]