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Have a look at some of these[1]. Some of them are vacuous, but I would definitely not call a lot of them positive values mainstream America would associate with

Have a look at some of these[1]. Some of them are vacuous, but I would definitely not call a lot of them positive values mainstream America would associate with. At the end of the day they are a corporation whose job is to make profit not possibly die by being idealistic. I would even argue that the privacy thing, while commendable is a selling point more than an ideal they hold dear. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Apple_Inc.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> a selling point more than an ideal they hold dear I agree. Note that I didn’t mention privacy. We both understood that implicitly. That’s partly marketing. But it’s underwritten by some truth, if not a comprehensive truth. Values, in my view, are meaningful if strived for. They don’t need to be perfectly attained to be valid. Apple has made tradeoffs and incurred costs to strive towards protecting privacy, and it’s been consistent in that aim over its history. Even to this imperfect standard, I struggle to come up with analogs for the others.
- actuator 6y ago
  I think that's a luxury Apple can afford though and an outcome of their approach to devices. Take the example of Maps, for anyone to create a good maps experience they need a lot of money, A $1000 phone with about $200-300 actual component costs has enough margin for other things, even software. So the price is kind of included in the phone. Even if we just give $10 of this to Maps as it is a core experience, that is $2-3 billion per year. For other companies trying to compete, it is either ads or subscription. So even if you charge $20 per year, you need 100 million paying users. Apple also incurs the cost of running it but it gets hidden the price of the phone, others don't have this luxury. Though, I think certainly a company like Samsung which has significant device revenue can try this approach. Also, in case of ideals if I have to give an example of a company that tries to uphold one ideal very well would be, Google's efforts to improve diversity. https://diversity.google https://diversity.google
  - scarface74 6y ago
    Or you know, other phone manufacturers could make a product that users were actually willing to pay a premium cut.

JumpCrisscross 6y ago

> a selling point more than an ideal they hold dear I agree. Note that I didn’t mention privacy. We both understood that implicitly. That’s partly marketing. But it’s underwritten by some truth, if not a comprehensive truth. Values, in my view, are meaningful if strived for. They don’t need to be perfectly attained to be valid. Apple has made tradeoffs and incurred costs to strive towards protecting privacy, and it’s been consistent in that aim over its history. Even to this imperfect standard, I struggle to come up with analogs for the others.

actuator 6y ago
I think that's a luxury Apple can afford though and an outcome of their approach to devices. Take the example of Maps, for anyone to create a good maps experience they need a lot of money, A $1000 phone with about $200-300 actual component costs has enough margin for other things, even software. So the price is kind of included in the phone. Even if we just give $10 of this to Maps as it is a core experience, that is $2-3 billion per year. For other companies trying to compete, it is either ads or subscription. So even if you charge $20 per year, you need 100 million paying users. Apple also incurs the cost of running it but it gets hidden the price of the phone, others don't have this luxury. Though, I think certainly a company like Samsung which has significant device revenue can try this approach. Also, in case of ideals if I have to give an example of a company that tries to uphold one ideal very well would be, Google's efforts to improve diversity. https://diversity.google https://diversity.google
- scarface74 6y ago
  Or you know, other phone manufacturers could make a product that users were actually willing to pay a premium cut.