6 ms·

This is not pro-consumer behaviour. This is pro-Apple behaviour. They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. They're even stifling web apps to m

by osrec 6y ago

This is not pro-consumer behaviour. This is pro-Apple behaviour. They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. They're even stifling web apps to maintain this monopoly. If they were so pro-consumer, why do they allow spyware such as Tiktok to exist on their platform at all?

threeseed 6y ago
Because if you consider TikTok to be spyware then you would need to also block Google, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn etc. Instead Apple had implemented the most stringent, pro-privacy features and polices on any platform bar none.
- inopinatus 6y ago
  I actually do avoid installing all of those, and it is due to profound mistrust, so there's no reductio ad absurdum on that basis.
  - threeseed 6y ago
    Those were high-profile examples. But most apps implement some sort of telemetry even just basic product analytics e.g. MixPanel or Google Analytics. Both of which collect a wealth of user data. So if I were you I would not use any app or search engine. Just to be on the safe side.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - inopinatus 6y ago
      If you were me, you might've deleted that remark in shame after realising it is maximising snark at the expense of worthwhile advice. What I actually do is: minimise the number of apps installed, run a pihole to misroute unwanted traffic, run a VPN tunnel between home and a VPS that I manage myself for location masking and additional egress filtering, install a nonmonetized content blocker for which the source code is available (and run in advanced mode, with assets manually unblocked only by need), and use DuckDuckGo as my search engine. Neither MixPanel nor GA are in my good books, and if a website requires such spyware to load before it functions, I abandon it. What's more, I don't allow anything of the sort to be installed on my own services. The only third-party assets permitted are the card-capture fields from our payment gateway.
- osrec 6y ago
  Sorry, what?! Tiktok grabs your IMEI number, amongst numerous other things and sends them back to the mother ship. Not saying that other platforms don't collect data, but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware. If Apple was truly trying to protect consumers, there's no way it would allow it.
  - pjc50 6y ago
    Lots of apps do that. Which permission set does getting the IMEI require on iOS?
    - judge2020 6y ago
      The only legitimate way is via private entitlements, which require you be either Apple or perhaps a carrier that works with Apple to be on the iPhone https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24014412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24014412
  - jasode 6y ago
    >Tiktok grabs your IMEI number, amongst numerous other things and sends them back to the mother ship. Maybe I misunderstand you but the quick search[0] I did on Google says Apple iOS API doesn't allow programmer to fetch IMEI number. Did TikTok find a way to circumvent this and get the IMEI? [0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41278494/how-to-get-imei-number-of-iphone-programmatically/41278624 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41278494/how-to-get-imei... [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19927160/finding-imei-number-using-objective-c https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19927160/finding-imei-nu... [2] https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/31122 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/31122
  - threeseed 6y ago
    Provide evidence. There is no ability to get the IMEI on iOS.
  - nemothekid 6y ago
    >but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware. Somehow grabbing your IMEI is "whole other level of spyware" than Facebook, who had an app that was analyzing all the traffic sent through your phone.
scarface74 6y ago
Yes because if it wasn’t for Apple, web apps would bloom like they have on Android....
nemothekid 6y ago
>They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. That only affects the developer, not the consumer. What does the consumer care about who gets paid the fees. I keep seeing the App Store framed as a consumer issue rather than a developer one when it's not. The App Store is no question pro-consumer especially when you consider the fact that the "open" web has essentially devolved into using every available toolkit to track users across the web. I'm not at all interested in giving Facebook yet another platform where they can run amok with native hardware. I'm not interested in cleaning off Bonzai Buddy off my parents and friends phones.
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  If Apple decided to implement the Push Notification API for Mobile Safari, it would be very beneficial to the users of my forum websites. Now I’m forced to build an app, while my forums users are all happy with the website as it is. They just want push notifications and I’m convinced Apple is holding that back on purpose. I bet there are internal emails about that issue as well.
  - scarface74 6y ago
    I hate that half the request for push notifications are used for websites to spam me.
    - spiderfarmer 6y ago
      True. Apple could make it impossible to request permission. I’d be okay. As long as users who want it have a way to enable it.
- Mindwipe 6y ago
  The consumer cares that Apple engages in routine editorial censorship.
- ac29 6y ago
  > That only affects the developer, not the consumer. What does the consumer care about who gets paid the fees. I care if it means the applications are ~40% more expensive than need be.
LeftHandPath 6y ago
To be fair, stifling web apps sounds like an anti-google move, not a pro-apple move (unless they've explicitly stated otherwise, I'd assume this is the reasoning). That said, I have been able to install some of my own websites as apps on iOS after adding PWA support. I am not sure how much their support differs from the Android implementation.

by osrec 6y ago

threeseed 6y ago

Because if you consider TikTok to be spyware then you would need to also block Google, Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn etc. Instead Apple had implemented the most stringent, pro-privacy features and polices on any platform bar none.

inopinatus 6y ago
I actually do avoid installing all of those, and it is due to profound mistrust, so there's no reductio ad absurdum on that basis.
- threeseed 6y ago
  Those were high-profile examples. But most apps implement some sort of telemetry even just basic product analytics e.g. MixPanel or Google Analytics. Both of which collect a wealth of user data. So if I were you I would not use any app or search engine. Just to be on the safe side.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - inopinatus 6y ago
    If you were me, you might've deleted that remark in shame after realising it is maximising snark at the expense of worthwhile advice. What I actually do is: minimise the number of apps installed, run a pihole to misroute unwanted traffic, run a VPN tunnel between home and a VPS that I manage myself for location masking and additional egress filtering, install a nonmonetized content blocker for which the source code is available (and run in advanced mode, with assets manually unblocked only by need), and use DuckDuckGo as my search engine. Neither MixPanel nor GA are in my good books, and if a website requires such spyware to load before it functions, I abandon it. What's more, I don't allow anything of the sort to be installed on my own services. The only third-party assets permitted are the card-capture fields from our payment gateway.
osrec 6y ago
Sorry, what?! Tiktok grabs your IMEI number, amongst numerous other things and sends them back to the mother ship. Not saying that other platforms don't collect data, but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware. If Apple was truly trying to protect consumers, there's no way it would allow it.
- pjc50 6y ago
  Lots of apps do that. Which permission set does getting the IMEI require on iOS?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    The only legitimate way is via private entitlements, which require you be either Apple or perhaps a carrier that works with Apple to be on the iPhone https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24014412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24014412
- jasode 6y ago
  >Tiktok grabs your IMEI number, amongst numerous other things and sends them back to the mother ship. Maybe I misunderstand you but the quick search[0] I did on Google says Apple iOS API doesn't allow programmer to fetch IMEI number. Did TikTok find a way to circumvent this and get the IMEI? [0] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41278494/how-to-get-imei-number-of-iphone-programmatically/41278624 https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41278494/how-to-get-imei... [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19927160/finding-imei-number-using-objective-c https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19927160/finding-imei-nu... [2] https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/31122 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/31122
- threeseed 6y ago
  Provide evidence. There is no ability to get the IMEI on iOS.
- nemothekid 6y ago
  >but Tiktok is known for being a whole other level spyware. Somehow grabbing your IMEI is "whole other level of spyware" than Facebook, who had an app that was analyzing all the traffic sent through your phone.

scarface74 6y ago

Yes because if it wasn’t for Apple, web apps would bloom like they have on Android....

nemothekid 6y ago

>They enjoy the lock in + fees that the app store generates. That only affects the developer, not the consumer. What does the consumer care about who gets paid the fees. I keep seeing the App Store framed as a consumer issue rather than a developer one when it's not. The App Store is no question pro-consumer especially when you consider the fact that the "open" web has essentially devolved into using every available toolkit to track users across the web. I'm not at all interested in giving Facebook yet another platform where they can run amok with native hardware. I'm not interested in cleaning off Bonzai Buddy off my parents and friends phones.

spiderfarmer 6y ago
If Apple decided to implement the Push Notification API for Mobile Safari, it would be very beneficial to the users of my forum websites. Now I’m forced to build an app, while my forums users are all happy with the website as it is. They just want push notifications and I’m convinced Apple is holding that back on purpose. I bet there are internal emails about that issue as well.
- scarface74 6y ago
  I hate that half the request for push notifications are used for websites to spam me.
  - spiderfarmer 6y ago
    True. Apple could make it impossible to request permission. I’d be okay. As long as users who want it have a way to enable it.
Mindwipe 6y ago
The consumer cares that Apple engages in routine editorial censorship.
ac29 6y ago
> That only affects the developer, not the consumer. What does the consumer care about who gets paid the fees. I care if it means the applications are ~40% more expensive than need be.

LeftHandPath 6y ago

To be fair, stifling web apps sounds like an anti-google move, not a pro-apple move (unless they've explicitly stated otherwise, I'd assume this is the reasoning). That said, I have been able to install some of my own websites as apps on iOS after adding PWA support. I am not sure how much their support differs from the Android implementation.