5 ms·

You can still have what you want and give people other options. It's called choice. We deserve to be able to choose

by skuthus 6y ago

simonh 6y ago
You can choose, go and choose one of the other 70% of the phones on the market.
- skuthus 6y ago
  I can and I do - but that doesnt mean I dont think that the option should exist on iOS
- searchableguy 6y ago
  This. Go choose a better job if you are poor. There are many.
  - simonh 6y ago
    That’s very unfair. I believe in capitalism, yes, because I believe in individual freedom and personal property rights. That really all capitalism is. But I also believe in a caring society, as citizens were all in this together. Citizenship comes with obligations as well as rights and we should look after our own.
- bsaul 6y ago
  ios has reached a critical mass that makes it impossible to avoid for a huge number of apps if they want to be profitable, especially in rich countries.
- kennydude 6y ago
  Sure, when Apple will just sue any competitor for "infringing" on it's millions of stupid software patents
  - scarface74 6y ago
    When has Apple initiated a patent lawsuit since Cook became CEO?
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285862
      - scarface74 6y ago
        Words Mean Things. That lawsuit didn’t initiate under Cook.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/apple-seeking-to-invalidate-touchscreen-patents-used-against-it-in-lawsuit https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/apple-seeking-to-... https://www.thestreet.com/investing/california-judge-may-dismiss-apple-intel-antitrust-lawsuit-targeting-patent-troll https://www.thestreet.com/investing/california-judge-may-dis...
        scarface74 6y ago
        Those are lawsuits to invalidate patents not to sue other people for using their patents.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        You asked for patent lawsuits initiated under Cook's CEO tenure. Words Mean Things.
        simonh 6y ago
        The thread was explicitly about apple suing other companies over using their patents. You know that’s the context.
drivingmenuts 6y ago
Let’s be precise here. You want to be able to choose. If you can force thru a change to allow other app stores on an IDevice, and Apple still refuses to follow thru, then you can say you deserve it. Wanting a thing is not the same as deserving it. Choice does not exist until you have options. That said, I’m in favor of opening up other App Stores, so Apple can boot the all crapware and focus on a small number of high-quality, trustable apps, which they can market as such. Apple and the developers could charge a premium for being trusted and consumers would be able trust that they are actually receiving the best-in-class apps for their device. Then, if consumers want to go to some cut-rate App Store and buy crap apps, that’s on them. That’s a win-win all around.
- skuthus 6y ago
  It's a bit pedantic, but okay. I philosophically believe that we deserve to choose - you are right that the reality is different. I would like to make it the same.
  - drivingmenuts 6y ago
    It may seem pedantic, but it’s a useful distinction. ‘Deserves’ implies that you’ll get something without giving up anything. If you want a thing, then you can negotiate for it, each party giving up something to get their desired outcome. What would you be willing to give up so that Apple would support your desired outcome more?
chrisseaton 6y ago
> We deserve to be able to choose People at Apple choose not to spend their time, money, and energy on supporting third-party app stores. You can choose to do whatever you want. But you can't force people at Apple to choose to do something.
- mathnovice 6y ago
  >Apple choose not to spend their time, money, and energy on supporting third-party app stores. Apple doesn't need to support third party app stores. Apple actively hinders them.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this, and then they've had to support that code. They don't want to. Why on earth should they want to spend time writing code to run other people's businesses that they aren't involved in. Do you require that McDonald's will sell you a Pepsi, when McDonald's want to sell you Coca-Cola? Do you demand that you should be allowed to set up a Pepsi store inside a McDonalds?
    - ac29 6y ago
      They wouldnt need to write more code, theyd need to remove code. Third party app stores already exist for iOS with no assistance from Apple, they are just prevented from running unless the device is jailbroken. Granted, they might choose to write some code to manage how these additional stores work, but theres no technical reason I can think of that they would have to.
    - mathnovice 6y ago
      > They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this How would they have to write extra code to support this? They already support 3rd party apps. Your analogies are bad.

You can still have what you want and give people other options. It's called choice. We deserve to be able to choose

simonh 6y ago

You can choose, go and choose one of the other 70% of the phones on the market.

skuthus 6y ago
I can and I do - but that doesnt mean I dont think that the option should exist on iOS
searchableguy 6y ago
This. Go choose a better job if you are poor. There are many.
- simonh 6y ago
  That’s very unfair. I believe in capitalism, yes, because I believe in individual freedom and personal property rights. That really all capitalism is. But I also believe in a caring society, as citizens were all in this together. Citizenship comes with obligations as well as rights and we should look after our own.
bsaul 6y ago
ios has reached a critical mass that makes it impossible to avoid for a huge number of apps if they want to be profitable, especially in rich countries.
kennydude 6y ago
Sure, when Apple will just sue any competitor for "infringing" on it's millions of stupid software patents
- scarface74 6y ago
  When has Apple initiated a patent lawsuit since Cook became CEO?
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4285862
    - scarface74 6y ago
      Words Mean Things. That lawsuit didn’t initiate under Cook.
      - Apocryphon 6y ago
        https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/apple-seeking-to-invalidate-touchscreen-patents-used-against-it-in-lawsuit https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/apple-seeking-to-... https://www.thestreet.com/investing/california-judge-may-dismiss-apple-intel-antitrust-lawsuit-targeting-patent-troll https://www.thestreet.com/investing/california-judge-may-dis...
        scarface74 6y ago
        Those are lawsuits to invalidate patents not to sue other people for using their patents.
        Apocryphon 6y ago
        You asked for patent lawsuits initiated under Cook's CEO tenure. Words Mean Things.
        simonh 6y ago
        The thread was explicitly about apple suing other companies over using their patents. You know that’s the context.

drivingmenuts 6y ago

Let’s be precise here. You want to be able to choose. If you can force thru a change to allow other app stores on an IDevice, and Apple still refuses to follow thru, then you can say you deserve it. Wanting a thing is not the same as deserving it. Choice does not exist until you have options. That said, I’m in favor of opening up other App Stores, so Apple can boot the all crapware and focus on a small number of high-quality, trustable apps, which they can market as such. Apple and the developers could charge a premium for being trusted and consumers would be able trust that they are actually receiving the best-in-class apps for their device. Then, if consumers want to go to some cut-rate App Store and buy crap apps, that’s on them. That’s a win-win all around.

skuthus 6y ago
It's a bit pedantic, but okay. I philosophically believe that we deserve to choose - you are right that the reality is different. I would like to make it the same.
- drivingmenuts 6y ago
  It may seem pedantic, but it’s a useful distinction. ‘Deserves’ implies that you’ll get something without giving up anything. If you want a thing, then you can negotiate for it, each party giving up something to get their desired outcome. What would you be willing to give up so that Apple would support your desired outcome more?

chrisseaton 6y ago

> We deserve to be able to choose People at Apple choose not to spend their time, money, and energy on supporting third-party app stores. You can choose to do whatever you want. But you can't force people at Apple to choose to do something.

mathnovice 6y ago
>Apple choose not to spend their time, money, and energy on supporting third-party app stores. Apple doesn't need to support third party app stores. Apple actively hinders them.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this, and then they've had to support that code. They don't want to. Why on earth should they want to spend time writing code to run other people's businesses that they aren't involved in. Do you require that McDonald's will sell you a Pepsi, when McDonald's want to sell you Coca-Cola? Do you demand that you should be allowed to set up a Pepsi store inside a McDonalds?
  - ac29 6y ago
    They wouldnt need to write more code, theyd need to remove code. Third party app stores already exist for iOS with no assistance from Apple, they are just prevented from running unless the device is jailbroken. Granted, they might choose to write some code to manage how these additional stores work, but theres no technical reason I can think of that they would have to.
  - mathnovice 6y ago
    > They'd have to write extra code compared to what they have now to do this How would they have to write extra code to support this? They already support 3rd party apps. Your analogies are bad.