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Speaking personally, here's why TikTok concerns me: TikTok is a Chinese business, and China has shown no limit to how much it will meddle in the affairs of and

Speaking personally, here's why TikTok concerns me: TikTok is a Chinese business, and China has shown no limit to how much it will meddle in the affairs of and even take control of Chinese businesses for the furthering of the Chinese state's agenda. Simultaneously, TikTok has captured the daily attention spans of millions of Americans, many of them especially young and impressionable. They've captured their attention in the form of a black box algorithm that promotes content in whichever way TikTok deems most appropriate. These two facts mean that the Chinese government now has direct access to the brains of millions of young Americans, with zero oversight. Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. These might sound like far flung possibilities, but I think it's hard to say what a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically) might do with that kind of power, and I don't think we can wait to find out.

hakka-nyu-su 6y ago
Does China really identify as "a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically)" or is that just a projection of how the US feels about China?
- tempodox 6y ago
  Absolutely. China does not recognize even the idea of Human Rights, let alone their implementation. What do you think the Great Chinese Firewall is for? Shutting out all those ideas from the rest of the world that are deemed hostile to the ruling party's ideology.
  - altaria 6y ago
    America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. We have learned not to force it on countries anymore with violence, but the struggle for global democracy remains nonetheless. We are an existential threat to China.
    - mullingitover 6y ago
      > America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. I've studied the history of the US enough to know that this is brazen propaganda with no firm basis in reality. The US has no problem propping up brutal tyrants when it's convenient.
      - altaria 6y ago
        There are far more Democracies supported by the US in numerous ways in the post WWII period than totalitarians supported. This is fact.
        mullingitover 6y ago
        Correct, the US doesn't only support totalitarians. However, it does support them. The US support for democracy isn't based on principles is my point, it's based on convenience, and the US will merrily crush a democracy and install a dictator if it's in US interests.
        altaria 6y ago
        Ah, this is your mistake. The US support for democracy is absolutely based on principles. It is the exceptions that you're focusing on and trying to use to create some essentialist caricature of the US. Keep in mind that most examples of the US supporting non democratic regimes come from the Cold War, when the thinking was that Communism posed an existential threat to global freedom and democracy and that in the interest of democracy's general preservation and overall victory over tyrannical communism, it was necessary to prop up dictators who would act harshly against the Communist threat. Was this the right move in hindsight? Maybe not. But it was absolutely borne from a desire to preserve global freedom from tyrannical communism.
        vore 6y ago
        I believe there's a saying: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
tempodox 6y ago
There have also been reports that the Chinese use all the behavioral data reaped from TikTok as input for training their own surveillance and censorship ML. The international user base is involuntarily turned into fuel for the totalitarian Chinese oppression machinery.
thrownaway954 6y ago
"Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US." our president is doing a fine job of that now with his twitter account.
- pageandrew 6y ago
  Right, but we have the ability to vote him out of office. We don't have the same oversight of the content the Chinese Communist Party wants to put in the minds of young Americans, besides banning the app.
- altaria 6y ago
  Or, you know, our mainstream media exclusively broadcasting videos without contextualization of white police officers killing black men to the country and ignoring all other racial configurations of violence in order to stoke racial tension.
- bagacrap 6y ago
  and according to many, his election was partially a result of foreign tampering
eunos 6y ago
> These two facts mean that the Chinese government now has direct access to the brains of millions of young Americans, with zero oversight. Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. These might sound like far flung possibilities, but I think it's hard to say what a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically) might do with that kind of power, and I don't think we can wait to find out. Ironically this idea is one of the rationale behind the GFW. Dont want any Spring/colour revolution over there.
sanxiyn 6y ago
> They've captured their attention in the form of a black box algorithm that promotes content in whichever way TikTok deems most appropriate. Ugh no. TikTok's recommendation algorithm works the way it does because of its userbase's preference. TikTok is NOT free to change it willy-nilly. At best TikTok can "steer" the algorithm.
mullingitover 6y ago
> Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. I mean, Youtube[1] and Facebook[2] already do this, and nobody has a problem with it. Do foreign-owned businesses not have first amendment rights? I should also point out that honest journalistic reporting of the reality in the US is more than sufficient to create outrage and civil unrest in the US. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/28/study-of-youtube-comments-finds-evidence-of-radicalization-effect/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/28/study-of-youtube-comments-... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/the-far-right-is-a-meme https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/the-far-r...
kanox 6y ago
> Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. Restricting foreign media based on "propaganda" fears is not a behavior that free societies engage in.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
throw987542 6y ago
Does this mean China is correct in censoring information and social networks?

hakka-nyu-su 6y ago

Does China really identify as "a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically)" or is that just a projection of how the US feels about China?

tempodox 6y ago
Absolutely. China does not recognize even the idea of Human Rights, let alone their implementation. What do you think the Great Chinese Firewall is for? Shutting out all those ideas from the rest of the world that are deemed hostile to the ruling party's ideology.
- altaria 6y ago
  America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. We have learned not to force it on countries anymore with violence, but the struggle for global democracy remains nonetheless. We are an existential threat to China.
  - mullingitover 6y ago
    > America is a fundamentally revolutionary nation fighting for global democracy. I've studied the history of the US enough to know that this is brazen propaganda with no firm basis in reality. The US has no problem propping up brutal tyrants when it's convenient.
    - altaria 6y ago
      There are far more Democracies supported by the US in numerous ways in the post WWII period than totalitarians supported. This is fact.
      - mullingitover 6y ago
        Correct, the US doesn't only support totalitarians. However, it does support them. The US support for democracy isn't based on principles is my point, it's based on convenience, and the US will merrily crush a democracy and install a dictator if it's in US interests.
        altaria 6y ago
        Ah, this is your mistake. The US support for democracy is absolutely based on principles. It is the exceptions that you're focusing on and trying to use to create some essentialist caricature of the US. Keep in mind that most examples of the US supporting non democratic regimes come from the Cold War, when the thinking was that Communism posed an existential threat to global freedom and democracy and that in the interest of democracy's general preservation and overall victory over tyrannical communism, it was necessary to prop up dictators who would act harshly against the Communist threat. Was this the right move in hindsight? Maybe not. But it was absolutely borne from a desire to preserve global freedom from tyrannical communism.
        vore 6y ago
        I believe there's a saying: the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

tempodox 6y ago

There have also been reports that the Chinese use all the behavioral data reaped from TikTok as input for training their own surveillance and censorship ML. The international user base is involuntarily turned into fuel for the totalitarian Chinese oppression machinery.

thrownaway954 6y ago

"Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US." our president is doing a fine job of that now with his twitter account.

pageandrew 6y ago
Right, but we have the ability to vote him out of office. We don't have the same oversight of the content the Chinese Communist Party wants to put in the minds of young Americans, besides banning the app.
altaria 6y ago
Or, you know, our mainstream media exclusively broadcasting videos without contextualization of white police officers killing black men to the country and ignoring all other racial configurations of violence in order to stoke racial tension.
bagacrap 6y ago
and according to many, his election was partially a result of foreign tampering

eunos 6y ago

> These two facts mean that the Chinese government now has direct access to the brains of millions of young Americans, with zero oversight. Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. These might sound like far flung possibilities, but I think it's hard to say what a country that views the US as its enemy (politically, economically, philosophically) might do with that kind of power, and I don't think we can wait to find out. Ironically this idea is one of the rationale behind the GFW. Dont want any Spring/colour revolution over there.

sanxiyn 6y ago

> They've captured their attention in the form of a black box algorithm that promotes content in whichever way TikTok deems most appropriate. Ugh no. TikTok's recommendation algorithm works the way it does because of its userbase's preference. TikTok is NOT free to change it willy-nilly. At best TikTok can "steer" the algorithm.

mullingitover 6y ago

> Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. I mean, Youtube[1] and Facebook[2] already do this, and nobody has a problem with it. Do foreign-owned businesses not have first amendment rights? I should also point out that honest journalistic reporting of the reality in the US is more than sufficient to create outrage and civil unrest in the US. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/28/study-of-youtube-comments-finds-evidence-of-radicalization-effect/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/01/28/study-of-youtube-comments-... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/the-far-right-is-a-meme https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/the-far-r...

kanox 6y ago

> Imagine China subtly promoting videos to create outrage and civil unrest in the US, or to feed anti-US propaganda to germinate terrorist groups in the US. Restricting foreign media based on "propaganda" fears is not a behavior that free societies engage in.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

throw987542 6y ago

Does this mean China is correct in censoring information and social networks?