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It's more about a portend of what's to come, not that this tax per se is the final straw. Next year there will be another tax, and another tax. I'm convinced pe
by cellis 6y ago
It's more about a portend of what's to come, not that this tax per se is the final straw. Next year there will be another tax, and another tax. I'm convinced people in California won't be happy with the level of taxation until we're like Sweden or France.
- shakezula 6y agoGod that would be awful huh, having healthcare and decent public transportation systems
- twblalock 6y agoThat isn't what would happen. Lack of funding is not the reason we don't have those things now.
- shakezula 6y agoI dunno. Seems like every time a public transportation system proposal pops up in my city, money is the number one thing they cite when they say “it’s just not feasible.” :shrug:
- twblalock 6y agoThat's because it costs a lot to build, because voters have made it difficult by passing strict zoning laws, because they don't want people to be allowed to build. If the city did find the money, you would then see people opposing transit on the grounds of environmental impact, or noise, or crime, or the "character of the neighborhood". Then the lawsuits would start.
- shakezula 6y agoRight, we should never strive for beneficial public things because they're hard and people complain. Yes, this makes sense.
- shuckles 6y agoAmerican infrastructure costs are an order of magnitude higher than the European comparable: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/07/29/the-us-leads-the-way-in-high-costs/ https://pedestrianobservations.com/2020/07/29/the-us-leads-t...
- cellis 6y agoDepends on if you believe raising taxes will get you those things, or if the money will be squandered on inefficiency, large salaries for public servants, and corruption on your construction / maintenance contracts. So far, high taxes have worked out well for California. I've lived here the past 10 years and I'm looking around and not sure the money is well spent these days.
- ponker 6y agoAdjusted for inflation the state budget has ~tripled in the last 20 years. How much healthcare and decent public transportation has it gotten us?
- OminousWeapons 6y agoYeah I'm sure you would be very happy to get services that exclusively other people are paying for. Who wouldn't? How about a broad tax increase on the middle class and above which would actually generate the revenue necessary to pay for these types of projects sustainably? Funny how when that gets suggested, support for public spending tends to evaporate.
- Apocryphon 6y agoI am okay with a broad tax increase on the middle class and above which would actually generate the revenue necessary to pay for these types of projects sustainably. I suspect the poster you're replying to would be as well.
- OminousWeapons 6y agoGreat, then we are all aligned. I am 100% in favor of building high quality public services as long as everyone is paying.
- Apocryphon 6y agoSuper, when are we repealing Prop 13?
- shakezula 6y agoYeah, I would absolutely be okay with this if it meant i could legitimately get rid of my vehicle, ride transit reliably, reduce my emissions. It would probably mean a net decrease in my expenses.
- Apocryphon 6y agoThe reduction in air pollution and traffic stress/accidents could possibly lead to subtle gains in public health and reduced strain on healthcare systems, as well!
- arebop 6y agoFrance's top marginal rate is 45%.
- jbn 6y agoWell France is the master of all countries at taxation (they invented VAT, amongst many other kinds of taxes...). In particular when employing people, the employer has to pay employment taxes on top of the employee income (same as in the US, but at a much higher rate), and that is not subject to income tax, yet represents "cotisation sociales" (social contributions, i.e. retirement, unemployment, health taxes) that came on top of that. Use this simulator : https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ https://entreprise.pole-emploi.fr/cout-salarie/ and you'll see that for a 100 kEuro/year employee, what the employee sees is 55 kEuro/year (and that's before income tax). My point is that most taxation in France is not income tax, so even if a marginal rate of 45% exists, that's not where the French are most taxed (although the French would argue that "cotisation sociales" are not taxes, IMHO they very much are). Income tax is not even the number 1 tax for the French state (that would be VAT, see https://www.performance-publique.budget.gouv.fr/budget-comptes-etat/budget-etat/approfondir/recettes-etat/recettes-fiscales#.XycCiYhKhhE https://www.performance-publique.budget.gouv.fr/budget-compt...). Not saying this is a bad thing (I wouldn't mind a top marginal rate of 90 % as has existed in the US for most of the 20th century... most people aren't subject to it), and in fact I think the French get a lot (although not enough, the state budget could be better managed) for all their taxes.
- SubiculumCode 6y agoGosh, a 3 percent increase on income over four million dollars whatever will you do to survive.
- hnmullany 6y agoMarginal tax rates in California for top earners (including the medicare surcharge) are already about equivalent to France. 37% fed + 13.3% CA + 1.45% Medicare = 52%. Compared to France's 45% income + 7.5% social security taxes.
- shuckles 6y agoI’ve always observed that California has European tax rates on income. Is there a good understanding of why the outcomes are worse? I could imagine: - Ineffective spending - Lower taxes on wealth (i.e. non-income) - Higher taxes on consumption - Higher taxes in Europe on employers (i.e. non-personal income) - Higher taxes on capital income Do people have good resources to understand the relative source of discrepancy?