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There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused. Some people inappropriately generalize those experiences, and instead of being (

There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused. Some people inappropriately generalize those experiences, and instead of being (appropriately) aware of the possibility of mistreatment or risk, they expect such treatment or interpret all treatment through such a lens. There's no need to deny that you might be a victim. My ex-girlfriend cheated on me, and maybe my current one will too. But recognizing that possibility doesn't mean orienting my approach to the relationship around it, and in fact being clear about what boundaries/behaviors make me feel safe empowers me. Viewing myself as (fundamentally) a victim rather than someone who was a victim in a specific past circumstance does the opposite. The article might get it wrong in some ways, but the fundamental responsibility for one's self and one's emotional well-being is still an important point.

watwut 6y ago
Responsibility for yourself should not mean that you will now be like "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong". It was not. Responsibility for yourself also means that some things are not your doing. You and I are not Gods moving everyone else by our actions.
- GavinMcG 6y ago
  Precisely. Which is why recognizing that other's actions aren't about you and don't have to disempower you is part of undoing the view of yourself as a perpetual victim and a view of others as having more power over you than they do.
  - watwut 6y ago
    Frankly, what you just wrote is just bullshit. The whole "perpetual victim" complain exist just to shut up people who tell uncomfortable things about what happened to them. Sometimes other people do have power over you, other times they dont. Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense.
    - GavinMcG 6y ago
      > Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense. Yes, that's right. Which is why I mentioned thinking about "others as having more power over you than they do" and acknowledged upthread that "There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused." I think you're hearing me say something like "no one is victimized." Far from it. People really are victimized, and they are victims in those situations. But the question is whether, over time, they continue to engage with the world primarily as victims or whether their victimization is an event that's placed in the past. I mentioned being cheated on. I do not believe that "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong." I remember it very well, and I am absolutely confident that my ex's decisions and actions were hers and hers alone. I also spent a fair amount of time in pain. Now, I could go forward in the world continuing to feel that pain. I could go forward in the world thinking things like "I won't ever be in a healthy, trusting relationship" or "next time, I need to have more control over my partner" or "it must be that I'm an inadequate man." But I don't. Was I a victim? Yes. Do I have that victim mindset? No. I was bullied as a child. Well into adulthood, I held on to a number of victim-oriented views, such as: people probably don't like me; other men are threats; I can't be friends with men. That's the bullshit. This painful series of events happened to me when I was young, but I took lessons about how children treated me and overgeneralized from them. Can people still affect me and harm me? Yes, of course! But I don't need to go around looking over my shoulder and expecting that from everyone. I can remove myself from situations; I can fight back; I can call out the harmful behavior. I'm not in the victim mindset of "other people are hurting me and there's nothing I can do." I'm in the empowered mindset of "other people might hurt me, but there are things I can do about that." Along with that, I've realized that some people won't like me, but that's up to them, and others do like me. And that some men are threats, but others are kind, and I can choose which men I associate with. Like I said earlier, no one is denying victimhood. But it's a victim mindset to generalize painful and disempowering experiences, and make those the primary lens in your mental view of the world. If someone has told you to shut up about uncomfortable things to hear that have happened to you, I'm sorry. That's wrong. In fact, changing your worldview generally requires digging into those things that have happened to you. But a lot of people take and advocate the unhealthy approach of "just suck it up" or telling someone to "stop playing the victim" without recognizing the hard and somewhat lengthy journey it can take to actually develop and reinforce a healthier more empowered worldview.

watwut 6y ago

Responsibility for yourself should not mean that you will now be like "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong". It was not. Responsibility for yourself also means that some things are not your doing. You and I are not Gods moving everyone else by our actions.

GavinMcG 6y ago
Precisely. Which is why recognizing that other's actions aren't about you and don't have to disempower you is part of undoing the view of yourself as a perpetual victim and a view of others as having more power over you than they do.
- watwut 6y ago
  Frankly, what you just wrote is just bullshit. The whole "perpetual victim" complain exist just to shut up people who tell uncomfortable things about what happened to them. Sometimes other people do have power over you, other times they dont. Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense.
  - GavinMcG 6y ago
    > Pretending that other people cant affect you and cant harm you is just nonsense. Yes, that's right. Which is why I mentioned thinking about "others as having more power over you than they do" and acknowledged upthread that "There are situations where you're disempowered, taken advantage of, or abused." I think you're hearing me say something like "no one is victimized." Far from it. People really are victimized, and they are victims in those situations. But the question is whether, over time, they continue to engage with the world primarily as victims or whether their victimization is an event that's placed in the past. I mentioned being cheated on. I do not believe that "maybe cheating was my fault or maybe I remember it wrong." I remember it very well, and I am absolutely confident that my ex's decisions and actions were hers and hers alone. I also spent a fair amount of time in pain. Now, I could go forward in the world continuing to feel that pain. I could go forward in the world thinking things like "I won't ever be in a healthy, trusting relationship" or "next time, I need to have more control over my partner" or "it must be that I'm an inadequate man." But I don't. Was I a victim? Yes. Do I have that victim mindset? No. I was bullied as a child. Well into adulthood, I held on to a number of victim-oriented views, such as: people probably don't like me; other men are threats; I can't be friends with men. That's the bullshit. This painful series of events happened to me when I was young, but I took lessons about how children treated me and overgeneralized from them. Can people still affect me and harm me? Yes, of course! But I don't need to go around looking over my shoulder and expecting that from everyone. I can remove myself from situations; I can fight back; I can call out the harmful behavior. I'm not in the victim mindset of "other people are hurting me and there's nothing I can do." I'm in the empowered mindset of "other people might hurt me, but there are things I can do about that." Along with that, I've realized that some people won't like me, but that's up to them, and others do like me. And that some men are threats, but others are kind, and I can choose which men I associate with. Like I said earlier, no one is denying victimhood. But it's a victim mindset to generalize painful and disempowering experiences, and make those the primary lens in your mental view of the world. If someone has told you to shut up about uncomfortable things to hear that have happened to you, I'm sorry. That's wrong. In fact, changing your worldview generally requires digging into those things that have happened to you. But a lot of people take and advocate the unhealthy approach of "just suck it up" or telling someone to "stop playing the victim" without recognizing the hard and somewhat lengthy journey it can take to actually develop and reinforce a healthier more empowered worldview.