4 ms·

Intel has something like 60% of the PC GPU market because of their built-in graphics.

by trimbo 6y ago

Alupis 6y ago
Yes, but not the high-end GPU market, which is what Intel has been trying to break into for quite some time now.
- phkahler 6y ago
  ARM is not in the high end GPU market either.
  - parsimo2010 6y ago
    No, but Nvidia is. So if Nvidia bought ARM, they could be a CPU and GPU maker.
    - zymhan 6y ago
      Nvidia has had modern ARM chips (the Tegra series among other) for at least a decade now. Any company can license ARM tech.
      - parsimo2010 6y ago
        The top level comment was about companies owning a CPU and GPU stack. NVIDIA licenses ARM IP now, if they bought ARM they would actually own the designs, putting them on the level of AMD and Intel where they would have greater control over the technology. Just licensing the designs puts a company on a lower chipmaking tier with Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple, Huawei, etc.
        tambre 6y ago
        > NVIDIA licenses ARM IP now, if they bought ARM they would actually own the designs NVIDIA Carmel is NVIDIA's own Arm v8.2-A design [0]. They only licence the architecture. The core is quite interesting, as it's doing dynamic recompilation for an underlying VLIW architecture. However, NVIDIA Orin[1] (followup for Tegra Xavier) will use a Cortex-A78 core[2] (formerly Hercules) licenced from ARM. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver [1] https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-introduces-drive-agx-orin-advanced-software-defined-platform-for-autonomous-machines#:~:text=NVIDIA%20today%20introduced%20NVIDIA%20DRIVE,four%20years%20of%20R%26D%20investment https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-introduces-drive-a.... [2] https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/arm_holdings/microarchitectures/cortex-a78 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/arm_holdings/microarchitectures...
- mc32 6y ago
  Heh... ever since the days of the chips and technology acquisition, if not sooner, they vacillate between wanting to be in the graphics business and not being in the graphics business...
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  My impression was they were intentionally not competing with Nvidia at one point?
- csharptwdec19 6y ago
  From the outside it sounds more like Intel has been infighting about this for 20+ years... The original i740 was theoretically a capable card; although fairly hampered by being forced to use Main Memory for Textures. Intel eventually backed down from the graphics market back then, and instead continued to use the 740 as a basis for the integrated graphics in the i810/815 chipsets. But, as GPUs became closer to what we saw as real GPUs, Intel continued to press on with the idea that keeping things done in the CPU was better for them (i.e. encouraging upgrades to higher end CPUs vs selling more lower margin graphics cards.) You saw a similar pattern with the 845/855/865: Shaders were all done in software (Hey, it finally almost justified Netburst, right? ;) And this pattern seems to continue with various forms of infighting between groups up to this day. The other Consistent problem they have had is driver compatibility/capability.
  - Zardoz84 6y ago
    Also, the i740 drivers were really bad. I had one and I remember all kind of bug and graphical glitchs on games that worked fine on a GeFoce 2 MX that I got latter.
petra 6y ago
Aren't AMD's APU's a better product for that market and will replace intel sooner or later?
- boring_twenties 6y ago
  One difference is that AMD only offers integrated graphics with weak CPUs, while Intel, unless something's changed recently, offers them on all their consumer models.
  - kemotep 6y ago
    Intel has started offering "F" SKU processors without integrated graphics only very recently with 9th and 10th gen Core CPU's. But yes otherwise, nearly every Intel CPU has integrated graphics whereas only a few select AMD CPU's have integrated graphics (and AMD brands them as APU's not CPU's).
    - boring_twenties 6y ago
      I'd be okay with only a few select CPUs, if even one of them was a reasonably powerful one. Instead, it's only the bottom of the barrel CPUs performance-wise. It seems that is changing somewhat with the 4000-series APUs, but guess what, those are only going to be sold to OEMs, not individuals. It's all rather frustrating, since I'm still on an i7-4770k and wouldn't mind an upgrade.
      - hnuser123456 6y ago
        So your situation is you want to DIY build a desktop with an integrated CPU+GPU, with a significant upgrade from a 4770k. 4770k passmark: 7042 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4770K+%40+3.50GHz&id=1919 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4770K... Ryzen 5 3400G passmark: 9421 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3400G&id=3498 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3400G&i... Intel Graphics 4600 (in 4770k): 649 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600&id=2451 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600... RX Vega 11 (in 3400G): 2106 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+RX+Vega+11&id=3893 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+RX+Veg... So relative to 4770k, 3400G has a 33% faster CPU, and 3.25x the GPU.

Intel has something like 60% of the PC GPU market because of their built-in graphics.

by trimbo 6y ago

Intel has something like 60% of the PC GPU market because of their built-in graphics.

Alupis 6y ago

Yes, but not the high-end GPU market, which is what Intel has been trying to break into for quite some time now.

phkahler 6y ago
ARM is not in the high end GPU market either.
- parsimo2010 6y ago
  No, but Nvidia is. So if Nvidia bought ARM, they could be a CPU and GPU maker.
  - zymhan 6y ago
    Nvidia has had modern ARM chips (the Tegra series among other) for at least a decade now. Any company can license ARM tech.
    - parsimo2010 6y ago
      The top level comment was about companies owning a CPU and GPU stack. NVIDIA licenses ARM IP now, if they bought ARM they would actually own the designs, putting them on the level of AMD and Intel where they would have greater control over the technology. Just licensing the designs puts a company on a lower chipmaking tier with Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple, Huawei, etc.
      - tambre 6y ago
        > NVIDIA licenses ARM IP now, if they bought ARM they would actually own the designs NVIDIA Carmel is NVIDIA's own Arm v8.2-A design [0]. They only licence the architecture. The core is quite interesting, as it's doing dynamic recompilation for an underlying VLIW architecture. However, NVIDIA Orin[1] (followup for Tegra Xavier) will use a Cortex-A78 core[2] (formerly Hercules) licenced from ARM. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Denver [1] https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-introduces-drive-agx-orin-advanced-software-defined-platform-for-autonomous-machines#:~:text=NVIDIA%20today%20introduced%20NVIDIA%20DRIVE,four%20years%20of%20R%26D%20investment https://nvidianews.nvidia.com/news/nvidia-introduces-drive-a.... [2] https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/arm_holdings/microarchitectures/cortex-a78 https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/arm_holdings/microarchitectures...
mc32 6y ago
Heh... ever since the days of the chips and technology acquisition, if not sooner, they vacillate between wanting to be in the graphics business and not being in the graphics business...
fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
My impression was they were intentionally not competing with Nvidia at one point?
csharptwdec19 6y ago
From the outside it sounds more like Intel has been infighting about this for 20+ years... The original i740 was theoretically a capable card; although fairly hampered by being forced to use Main Memory for Textures. Intel eventually backed down from the graphics market back then, and instead continued to use the 740 as a basis for the integrated graphics in the i810/815 chipsets. But, as GPUs became closer to what we saw as real GPUs, Intel continued to press on with the idea that keeping things done in the CPU was better for them (i.e. encouraging upgrades to higher end CPUs vs selling more lower margin graphics cards.) You saw a similar pattern with the 845/855/865: Shaders were all done in software (Hey, it finally almost justified Netburst, right? ;) And this pattern seems to continue with various forms of infighting between groups up to this day. The other Consistent problem they have had is driver compatibility/capability.
- Zardoz84 6y ago
  Also, the i740 drivers were really bad. I had one and I remember all kind of bug and graphical glitchs on games that worked fine on a GeFoce 2 MX that I got latter.

petra 6y ago

Aren't AMD's APU's a better product for that market and will replace intel sooner or later?

boring_twenties 6y ago
One difference is that AMD only offers integrated graphics with weak CPUs, while Intel, unless something's changed recently, offers them on all their consumer models.
- kemotep 6y ago
  Intel has started offering "F" SKU processors without integrated graphics only very recently with 9th and 10th gen Core CPU's. But yes otherwise, nearly every Intel CPU has integrated graphics whereas only a few select AMD CPU's have integrated graphics (and AMD brands them as APU's not CPU's).
  - boring_twenties 6y ago
    I'd be okay with only a few select CPUs, if even one of them was a reasonably powerful one. Instead, it's only the bottom of the barrel CPUs performance-wise. It seems that is changing somewhat with the 4000-series APUs, but guess what, those are only going to be sold to OEMs, not individuals. It's all rather frustrating, since I'm still on an i7-4770k and wouldn't mind an upgrade.
    - hnuser123456 6y ago
      So your situation is you want to DIY build a desktop with an integrated CPU+GPU, with a significant upgrade from a 4770k. 4770k passmark: 7042 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4770K+%40+3.50GHz&id=1919 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-4770K... Ryzen 5 3400G passmark: 9421 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3400G&id=3498 https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+3400G&i... Intel Graphics 4600 (in 4770k): 649 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600&id=2451 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Intel+HD+4600... RX Vega 11 (in 3400G): 2106 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+RX+Vega+11&id=3893 https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu.php?gpu=Radeon+RX+Veg... So relative to 4770k, 3400G has a 33% faster CPU, and 3.25x the GPU.