4 ms·

> particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics. Really? I feel exactly the opposite, especially for CS. How do you

> particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics. Really? I feel exactly the opposite, especially for CS. How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?

non-entity 6y ago
CS is an outlier. I imagine mathematics could be a good outlier as well. Its probably easier to find someone to help criticize your writing as opposed to getting your hands on expensive scientific / engineering equipment (both because of cost and regulations) however.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  That's certainly fair.
- jlongr 6y ago
  Mathematics is a subject that may not be the easiest or most desirable to self-study. In particular, the popular and effective Moore method of teaching math relies heavily on interaction with other students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method >[T]he content of the course is usually presented in whole or in part by the students themselves. Instead of using a textbook, the students are given a list of definitions and theorems which they are to prove and present in class, leading them through the subject material.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
> "How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?" Software developers have to communicate with our co-workers and write documents continually anyway so it's not much additional effort to observe the clarity, effectiveness and persuasiveness of what one is writing or even solicit feedback. You also get to observe colleagues and leaders who are good (or not) at writing and learn from their output. Being a competent communicator becomes more or less a requirement as one rises through the ranks, for both managers and senior technical individual contributors, so it's best to make a virtue out of necessity and hone your writing skills in the workplace.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  You’re assuming a baseline at or above those intro courses. I’ve had engineers who don’t know how paragraphs work, or whose vocabulary and reading comprehension seems to have stunted at middle school. Those people are usually stuck as juniors without formal education because they’re not at the point where self-teaching is possible. Ymmv
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "You’re assuming a baseline at or above those intro courses. I’ve had engineers who don’t know how paragraphs work, or whose vocabulary and reading comprehension seems to have stunted at middle school." If they're that poorly educated, then they'll be floundering in college humanities courses too so I'm not sure how that's a counterargument. Spending credit-hours on remedial English courses is even worse value for money.
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      the engineer’s second line probably isn’t so interested in playing comp 101 TA.

non-entity 6y ago

CS is an outlier. I imagine mathematics could be a good outlier as well. Its probably easier to find someone to help criticize your writing as opposed to getting your hands on expensive scientific / engineering equipment (both because of cost and regulations) however.

throwawaygh 6y ago
That's certainly fair.
jlongr 6y ago
Mathematics is a subject that may not be the easiest or most desirable to self-study. In particular, the popular and effective Moore method of teaching math relies heavily on interaction with other students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method >[T]he content of the course is usually presented in whole or in part by the students themselves. Instead of using a textbook, the students are given a list of definitions and theorems which they are to prove and present in class, leading them through the subject material.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

> "How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?" Software developers have to communicate with our co-workers and write documents continually anyway so it's not much additional effort to observe the clarity, effectiveness and persuasiveness of what one is writing or even solicit feedback. You also get to observe colleagues and leaders who are good (or not) at writing and learn from their output. Being a competent communicator becomes more or less a requirement as one rises through the ranks, for both managers and senior technical individual contributors, so it's best to make a virtue out of necessity and hone your writing skills in the workplace.

throwawaygh 6y ago
You’re assuming a baseline at or above those intro courses. I’ve had engineers who don’t know how paragraphs work, or whose vocabulary and reading comprehension seems to have stunted at middle school. Those people are usually stuck as juniors without formal education because they’re not at the point where self-teaching is possible. Ymmv
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "You’re assuming a baseline at or above those intro courses. I’ve had engineers who don’t know how paragraphs work, or whose vocabulary and reading comprehension seems to have stunted at middle school." If they're that poorly educated, then they'll be floundering in college humanities courses too so I'm not sure how that's a counterargument. Spending credit-hours on remedial English courses is even worse value for money.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    the engineer’s second line probably isn’t so interested in playing comp 101 TA.