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> Majoring in "Eastern Gender Studies" will likely waste 4 years of your life. I took a bunch of art history courses that focused mostly on Asia while double m

> Majoring in "Eastern Gender Studies" will likely waste 4 years of your life. I took a bunch of art history courses that focused mostly on Asia while double majoring in STEM fields. I'm a scientist, not a designer, but I do manage a team that includes designers. I often have to weigh in on certain design choices, and getting those choices right is often make/break for the project. The tools and skills I developed in art history courses are super helpful. As a manager or either people or product, these "soft" fields that intersect with anthro start providing a lot of value. A good friend double-majored in music and has a similar opinion. So, I would not recommend majoring exclusivity in an obscure humanity. But attending university without taking some upper-division humanities courses is probable a mistake. Oh, and ignoring intro-level humanities courses is an even bigger mistake. SWEs who are weak coders can often be mentored. SWEs who can't write or communicate well are pretty much a lost cause.

compsciphd 6y ago
that's the argument for going to a liberal arts college and majoring a BA in CS instead of a BS. It be an interesting study to look at universities that offer both tracks. Take Columbia University that where one can earn a BSE in CS from the school of engineering, or one can earn a BA from columbia college. where the students are taking many of the same "core" CS classes, but the engineering students have a larger CS course load, while the BA students have a larger humanities course load. I'm sure there are other universities that have similar setups where one can get similar degrees with different course load emphasis.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  Comparing outcomes at places like Columbia would be fascinating. Not sure I agree about liberal arts colleges writ large. The tippy-top tier are pretty great. But the ones in our region have... eclectic... CS faculty. Random math phds and early retirement from industry types. Entire departments taken together have single digit H-indices. I'm sure they're great teachers and all, but... $25K+/yr for the same sort of de facto non-academic retired/shifted-from-industry instructors you can get at any coding bootcamp or community college is robbery. Especially when the state school next door is about the same price and has a real faculty still pushing the edges of the field.
ThrowawayR2 6y ago
While I agree regarding about the awfulness of SWEs who can't write or communicate (which is most of them), college credit hours are too valuable to be wasted on humanities courses, particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics.
- throwawaygh 6y ago
  > particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics. Really? I feel exactly the opposite, especially for CS. How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?
  - non-entity 6y ago
    CS is an outlier. I imagine mathematics could be a good outlier as well. Its probably easier to find someone to help criticize your writing as opposed to getting your hands on expensive scientific / engineering equipment (both because of cost and regulations) however.
    - throwawaygh 6y ago
      That's certainly fair.
    - jlongr 6y ago
      Mathematics is a subject that may not be the easiest or most desirable to self-study. In particular, the popular and effective Moore method of teaching math relies heavily on interaction with other students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method >[T]he content of the course is usually presented in whole or in part by the students themselves. Instead of using a textbook, the students are given a list of definitions and theorems which they are to prove and present in class, leading them through the subject material.
  - ThrowawayR2 6y ago
    > "How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?" Software developers have to communicate with our co-workers and write documents continually anyway so it's not much additional effort to observe the clarity, effectiveness and persuasiveness of what one is writing or even solicit feedback. You also get to observe colleagues and leaders who are good (or not) at writing and learn from their output. Being a competent communicator becomes more or less a requirement as one rises through the ranks, for both managers and senior technical individual contributors, so it's best to make a virtue out of necessity and hone your writing skills in the workplace.

compsciphd 6y ago

that's the argument for going to a liberal arts college and majoring a BA in CS instead of a BS. It be an interesting study to look at universities that offer both tracks. Take Columbia University that where one can earn a BSE in CS from the school of engineering, or one can earn a BA from columbia college. where the students are taking many of the same "core" CS classes, but the engineering students have a larger CS course load, while the BA students have a larger humanities course load. I'm sure there are other universities that have similar setups where one can get similar degrees with different course load emphasis.

throwawaygh 6y ago
Comparing outcomes at places like Columbia would be fascinating. Not sure I agree about liberal arts colleges writ large. The tippy-top tier are pretty great. But the ones in our region have... eclectic... CS faculty. Random math phds and early retirement from industry types. Entire departments taken together have single digit H-indices. I'm sure they're great teachers and all, but... $25K+/yr for the same sort of de facto non-academic retired/shifted-from-industry instructors you can get at any coding bootcamp or community college is robbery. Especially when the state school next door is about the same price and has a real faculty still pushing the edges of the field.

ThrowawayR2 6y ago

While I agree regarding about the awfulness of SWEs who can't write or communicate (which is most of them), college credit hours are too valuable to be wasted on humanities courses, particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics.

throwawaygh 6y ago
> particularly when humanities topics are far more amenable to self-study than STEM topics. Really? I feel exactly the opposite, especially for CS. How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?
- non-entity 6y ago
  CS is an outlier. I imagine mathematics could be a good outlier as well. Its probably easier to find someone to help criticize your writing as opposed to getting your hands on expensive scientific / engineering equipment (both because of cost and regulations) however.
  - throwawaygh 6y ago
    That's certainly fair.
  - jlongr 6y ago
    Mathematics is a subject that may not be the easiest or most desirable to self-study. In particular, the popular and effective Moore method of teaching math relies heavily on interaction with other students. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore_method >[T]he content of the course is usually presented in whole or in part by the students themselves. Instead of using a textbook, the students are given a list of definitions and theorems which they are to prove and present in class, leading them through the subject material.
- ThrowawayR2 6y ago
  > "How do you become a good writer without feedback from a good writer (or, at least, critical reader)?" Software developers have to communicate with our co-workers and write documents continually anyway so it's not much additional effort to observe the clarity, effectiveness and persuasiveness of what one is writing or even solicit feedback. You also get to observe colleagues and leaders who are good (or not) at writing and learn from their output. Being a competent communicator becomes more or less a requirement as one rises through the ranks, for both managers and senior technical individual contributors, so it's best to make a virtue out of necessity and hone your writing skills in the workplace.