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The attempt to shut these sort of results down by pointing out the lack of scientific explanation is a bit sad in my optics. If the study can not be replicated

The attempt to shut these sort of results down by pointing out the lack of scientific explanation is a bit sad in my optics. If the study can not be replicated or the methodology is crap then fair enough but no-one had (have?) the correct scientific explanation for, say, Copernicus' observations and they still drove science forward immensely. Blue sky thinking and observation should be encouraged even if it produces results that are not immediately explainable.

pjc50 6y ago
If grounding matters for body chemistry, it should matter for non-body chemistry, and there should be an effect that can be shown on the bench. But normal electrochemistry does nothing with a single, non-reactive electrical contact. (Two electrodes, sure. Or things like sacrificial anodes.)
- dingdingdang 6y ago
  >> If grounding matters for body chemistry, it should matter for non-body chemistry True within a specific domain but as it is we have very little idea about the forces that affect biological systems at a lower level - my favourite example is that basic disciplines like the use of anesthesia in medicine have to rely on extremely complex quantum theories* to even come close to explaining how the drugs work. Evolution has had no reason not to rely on extremely subtle aspects of reality. * https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1931238 https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid...
dkarl 6y ago
Is there any scientific motivation for this research? Any motivation at all, other than the quack products that are sold based on this theory? My father-in-law bought some "grounding mats" that he was supposed to stand on or put his feet on while he was sitting to improve the function of basically every organ in his body. Cures liver problems, kidney problems, digestion, etc. And of course it came with a huge list of vague symptoms like fatigue and trouble sleeping that could mean your liver, kidneys, etc. were malfunctioning. Doctors won't tell you the truth because it threatens their ability to get rich selling you overpriced and unnecessary medication, instead be smart and buy our product for only $29.99, blah blah blah. With that motivation in mind, I need to hear a plausible scientific motivation before I take it seriously. That's why the lack of a theory matters. If it's not motivated by a scientifically plausible theory of how it could work, or as an attempt to explore or extend a known phenomenon, I have to assume something else.
- jbotz 6y ago
  No, you have it completely backwards. This is actually a very valid use of the scientific method to test a completely scientifically valid and reasonable hypothesis that produced a negative result. It goes like this... Observation: Some new-agey quacks are selling products claiming that "grounding" has beneficial effects on physiology, but reasonable people doubt doubt this. Hypothesis: "Grounding" is complete nonsense, a "grounded" organism functions exactly the same as an ungrounded one. This hypothesis is easily justifiable by undergraduate physics and biology. Experiment: In this study we'll show that there's no difference in recovery after eccentric muscle loading in a grounded organisms than in an ungrounded one. Ooops! Negative result... hypothesis falsified? OK, I'm joking... sort of. The best scientists try to look at any phenomenon from as many angles as possible, even, and especially, absurd ones.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  > buy our product for only $29.99, blah blah blah It's $139: https://www.earthing.com/products/ground-therapy-single-sleep-mat-kit https://www.earthing.com/products/ground-therapy-single-slee... Note the "Verified Purchasers" and the rating which is slightly below 5 stars: high, but not maximum to avoid suspicion of fake reviews.

pjc50 6y ago

If grounding matters for body chemistry, it should matter for non-body chemistry, and there should be an effect that can be shown on the bench. But normal electrochemistry does nothing with a single, non-reactive electrical contact. (Two electrodes, sure. Or things like sacrificial anodes.)

dingdingdang 6y ago
>> If grounding matters for body chemistry, it should matter for non-body chemistry True within a specific domain but as it is we have very little idea about the forces that affect biological systems at a lower level - my favourite example is that basic disciplines like the use of anesthesia in medicine have to rely on extremely complex quantum theories* to even come close to explaining how the drugs work. Evolution has had no reason not to rely on extremely subtle aspects of reality. * https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid=1931238 https://anesthesiology.pubs.asahq.org/article.aspx?articleid...

dkarl 6y ago

Is there any scientific motivation for this research? Any motivation at all, other than the quack products that are sold based on this theory? My father-in-law bought some "grounding mats" that he was supposed to stand on or put his feet on while he was sitting to improve the function of basically every organ in his body. Cures liver problems, kidney problems, digestion, etc. And of course it came with a huge list of vague symptoms like fatigue and trouble sleeping that could mean your liver, kidneys, etc. were malfunctioning. Doctors won't tell you the truth because it threatens their ability to get rich selling you overpriced and unnecessary medication, instead be smart and buy our product for only $29.99, blah blah blah. With that motivation in mind, I need to hear a plausible scientific motivation before I take it seriously. That's why the lack of a theory matters. If it's not motivated by a scientifically plausible theory of how it could work, or as an attempt to explore or extend a known phenomenon, I have to assume something else.

jbotz 6y ago
No, you have it completely backwards. This is actually a very valid use of the scientific method to test a completely scientifically valid and reasonable hypothesis that produced a negative result. It goes like this... Observation: Some new-agey quacks are selling products claiming that "grounding" has beneficial effects on physiology, but reasonable people doubt doubt this. Hypothesis: "Grounding" is complete nonsense, a "grounded" organism functions exactly the same as an ungrounded one. This hypothesis is easily justifiable by undergraduate physics and biology. Experiment: In this study we'll show that there's no difference in recovery after eccentric muscle loading in a grounded organisms than in an ungrounded one. Ooops! Negative result... hypothesis falsified? OK, I'm joking... sort of. The best scientists try to look at any phenomenon from as many angles as possible, even, and especially, absurd ones.
- deleted 6y ago
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dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
> buy our product for only $29.99, blah blah blah It's $139: https://www.earthing.com/products/ground-therapy-single-sleep-mat-kit https://www.earthing.com/products/ground-therapy-single-slee... Note the "Verified Purchasers" and the rating which is slightly below 5 stars: high, but not maximum to avoid suspicion of fake reviews.