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As in so many disputes, the parties (koda.dk here) will claim this is about principles and yada yada yada, "Google removes all Danish music from Youtube", etc.

As in so many disputes, the parties (koda.dk here) will claim this is about principles and yada yada yada, "Google removes all Danish music from Youtube", etc. You can be guaranteed though, it's always just about the price and how the one party doesn't want to pay it, and the other party doesn't want to change it. ESPN doesn't want to pay MLB, Comcast doesn't want to pay local stations, app developers don't want to pay Apple. It goes on and on. The article has the headline "On the evening of Thursday 30 July, Google announced that they will soon remove all Danish music content on YouTube". Yet in the next paragraphs, it goes on to describe a change in terms promulgated by Google after a treaty expiration, and that "Of course, Koda cannot accept these terms". Well then, this is a decision by Google, and then a decision by Koda isn't it? Yet they make it sound like Google is the big bad entity. Isn't that convenient.

dgellow 6y ago
Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here.
- supernova87a 6y ago
  > Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here. That's fine. Just don't misrepresent that it's Google unilaterally removing people's content. "How do you want Koda to accept those terms?" However they wish to -- that's not my place to tell them. It's totally up to them. They can change their business model. They can come up with whatever ideas they want. Just like Google had to, to undercut all those old traditional advertisers who were charging ridiculous rates for print advertising. Just like every startup is trying to do to incumbents. Just like tons of people do every day without any desire for any revenue, even. Don't cherry pick the things you like about being able to create new things, and then suddenly demand barriers (on principle) to that same ability because you started making money on it. You just want your cut, just like Google.
  - vermilingua 6y ago
    A schoolyard bully goes to a group of children, and tells one “I want all your lunches, or I’m going to break your legs.” The children refuse, and their legs are broken; but it’s the children’s fault for not allowing the bully to take some of their lunch, and break one of their legs each.
    - supernova87a 6y ago
      > A schoolyard bully goes to a group of children, and tells one “I want all your lunches, or I’m going to break your legs.” The children refuse, and their legs are broken; but it’s the children’s fault for not allowing the bully to take some of their lunch, and break one of their legs each. Oh that's rich. Comparing a company that enabled a technology never seen before, which enters into voluntary agreements with other companies who create technology never seen before, to schoolyard bullies extorting kids and stealing their money. I love how working in tech can warp your sense of reality. And by the way, tell us, what analogy applies to the $ amounts that Koda takes off the top, before it pays its musicians royalties or gives them their share? I'm sure that wouldn't be breaking legs in their view, now would it?
      - KONAir 6y ago
        And which company is giving us "impossible without them" tech? Google and youtube maybe be accustomed to but not irreplacable by any measure.
        candiodari 6y ago
        Your account was created hours ago and solely replies to this article ... I just felt it important for this to be pointed out. You don't seem to be involved in reasonable discussion on this forum, just defending the monopolists in this one article.
        alexeldeib 6y ago
        You replied to a valid point about the underlying technology being possible to replicate with a comment 100% ignoring the content and instead attacked the character of the account. Maybe that user decided to join the discussion now; why discourage them? Further, looking at the account in question I see comments from months (actually, years) ago, so you’re also factually incorrect as far as I see.
- donor20 6y ago
  It's also such an obvious lie - I can trivially find lots of danish music on youtube. The music that has been taken down is the music that has not been licensed through the copyright society at the price they want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ Do you not see the difference between a headline that is a bit more honest - Google removes unlicensed music? Or google and danish copyright society cannot agree to terms?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - erk__ 6y ago
    I had originally used the title of the document which is "PRESS RELESE: ..." but it has since been altered. I had not removed it because I thought it made it clearer that this did not come from a neutral party. As it is a press release from one of the parties in this issue. Also, I do not know where you are from, but I am currently residing in Denmark and that music video you have linked is only accessible with YouTube Premium. As far as know this is only an issue when accessing the music from Denmark.
    - JAlexoid 6y ago
      Ask the author why... They'll tell you that these "music associations" are government enforced rackets that benefit the big artists alone. (No shocker here!)
      - donor20 6y ago
        It's not that bad. In the US there are 5 PROs which is better than a lot of places. And it does make licensing for users of music easier to have these societies. That said, in Europe these are more like monopolies. Still not bad it will be interesting to see if Youtube at some point starts charging for distribution. Spotify does this with sponsored songs - you can pay to get distribution.
_nalply 6y ago
Perhaps Koda is an organization with bylaws or even supported by a Danish act. Such organizations are founded to support local artists. So the bylaws or the act text prescribe some behavior as for collecting fees for playing music in Denmark. In other words just by playing Youtube in a Danish home, Koda might be legally required to collect fees. This means that perhaps Google is asking a Danish organization to break the law?
- JAlexoid 6y ago
  Allowed... not required. They also are crap at supporting local artists.

dgellow 6y ago

Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here.

supernova87a 6y ago
> Google uses their dominant position to ask a reduction of 70%. How do you want Koda to accept those terms? Why would artists work with Koda if they don’t push back on such a ridiculous demand? It’s their job to say no here. That's fine. Just don't misrepresent that it's Google unilaterally removing people's content. "How do you want Koda to accept those terms?" However they wish to -- that's not my place to tell them. It's totally up to them. They can change their business model. They can come up with whatever ideas they want. Just like Google had to, to undercut all those old traditional advertisers who were charging ridiculous rates for print advertising. Just like every startup is trying to do to incumbents. Just like tons of people do every day without any desire for any revenue, even. Don't cherry pick the things you like about being able to create new things, and then suddenly demand barriers (on principle) to that same ability because you started making money on it. You just want your cut, just like Google.
- vermilingua 6y ago
  A schoolyard bully goes to a group of children, and tells one “I want all your lunches, or I’m going to break your legs.” The children refuse, and their legs are broken; but it’s the children’s fault for not allowing the bully to take some of their lunch, and break one of their legs each.
  - supernova87a 6y ago
    > A schoolyard bully goes to a group of children, and tells one “I want all your lunches, or I’m going to break your legs.” The children refuse, and their legs are broken; but it’s the children’s fault for not allowing the bully to take some of their lunch, and break one of their legs each. Oh that's rich. Comparing a company that enabled a technology never seen before, which enters into voluntary agreements with other companies who create technology never seen before, to schoolyard bullies extorting kids and stealing their money. I love how working in tech can warp your sense of reality. And by the way, tell us, what analogy applies to the $ amounts that Koda takes off the top, before it pays its musicians royalties or gives them their share? I'm sure that wouldn't be breaking legs in their view, now would it?
    - KONAir 6y ago
      And which company is giving us "impossible without them" tech? Google and youtube maybe be accustomed to but not irreplacable by any measure.
      - candiodari 6y ago
        Your account was created hours ago and solely replies to this article ... I just felt it important for this to be pointed out. You don't seem to be involved in reasonable discussion on this forum, just defending the monopolists in this one article.
        alexeldeib 6y ago
        You replied to a valid point about the underlying technology being possible to replicate with a comment 100% ignoring the content and instead attacked the character of the account. Maybe that user decided to join the discussion now; why discourage them? Further, looking at the account in question I see comments from months (actually, years) ago, so you’re also factually incorrect as far as I see.
donor20 6y ago
It's also such an obvious lie - I can trivially find lots of danish music on youtube. The music that has been taken down is the music that has not been licensed through the copyright society at the price they want. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7sK5OiJHHQ Do you not see the difference between a headline that is a bit more honest - Google removes unlicensed music? Or google and danish copyright society cannot agree to terms?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- erk__ 6y ago
  I had originally used the title of the document which is "PRESS RELESE: ..." but it has since been altered. I had not removed it because I thought it made it clearer that this did not come from a neutral party. As it is a press release from one of the parties in this issue. Also, I do not know where you are from, but I am currently residing in Denmark and that music video you have linked is only accessible with YouTube Premium. As far as know this is only an issue when accessing the music from Denmark.
  - JAlexoid 6y ago
    Ask the author why... They'll tell you that these "music associations" are government enforced rackets that benefit the big artists alone. (No shocker here!)
    - donor20 6y ago
      It's not that bad. In the US there are 5 PROs which is better than a lot of places. And it does make licensing for users of music easier to have these societies. That said, in Europe these are more like monopolies. Still not bad it will be interesting to see if Youtube at some point starts charging for distribution. Spotify does this with sponsored songs - you can pay to get distribution.

_nalply 6y ago

Perhaps Koda is an organization with bylaws or even supported by a Danish act. Such organizations are founded to support local artists. So the bylaws or the act text prescribe some behavior as for collecting fees for playing music in Denmark. In other words just by playing Youtube in a Danish home, Koda might be legally required to collect fees. This means that perhaps Google is asking a Danish organization to break the law?

JAlexoid 6y ago
Allowed... not required. They also are crap at supporting local artists.