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I'm worried this will really damage tech workers in the USA. I'm in meetings with overseas clients most of the day and it's getting to the point that some are b

by mjayhn 6y ago

I'm worried this will really damage tech workers in the USA. I'm in meetings with overseas clients most of the day and it's getting to the point that some are back in offices and we're still locked in our kitchens. Mental health seems to be crashing if you judge by Twitter peers. I'm in the same boat. I've been locked in an apartment alone for 6 months outside of grocery grabs and some outdoor hikes and it's starting to really affect me. Its so embarrassing and I'm nowhere near as productive as I should be. Most of my EU peers are probably having to take up the slack.

ghaff 6y ago
From what I see--and admittedly a fair number of the people I know and work with were largely remote before this--many offices at least in the US are never going back to "normal." Most of the people I know are planning to be primarily remote indefinitely. Which means that even those who do go back into an office will have to deal with a largely distributed workplace.
- sokoloff 6y ago
  And, importantly, competing on the global stage for talent, rather than only against people who are commuting distance to a glass and concrete temple.
  - tharne 6y ago
    I think we'll see the beginnings of a regulatory moat in the not too distant future. Tech workers have the benefit of hindsight, having seen U.S. manufacturing jobs get decimated in the last few decades. A lot of fields already have built in protection from foreign competition. For instance, most if all states require that anyone conducting telemedicine work needs to be both licensed in the state were the service is being performed. Given the leftward drift of the Democratic party and Republican's newfound disdain for the big tech companies and things like HB1 visas, I would be shocked if we don't see some significant restrictions on how foreign workers are used in the tech sector.
    - sokoloff 6y ago
      I’m somewhat less sure. In a lot of cases in software, someone today in location L is creating software for the world and only a tiny slice of users are in the geographic/political entity where L is located. I don’t see the same level of natural protections for workers in CA, MA, TX that are present for the telemedicine example. If you’re writing software for the world, you might have temporarily enjoyed a bubble few decades in time where you could serve the world but only had to compete on an even footing against other labor situated in a high-cost area. This world-scale pre-post test of working remotely may be the discontinuity that aligns a global workforce to a global user base. (Remote collaboration completely sidesteps the H1B issue, of course.)
    - ghaff 6y ago
      A lot of US tech people wouldn't be happy if the government started requiring, say, Professional Engineer licenses (which in turn require 4 year degrees) for a lot of positions.
      - tharne 6y ago
        Fair enough, but the trend in everything does seem to be in favor of increased "credentialization". Heck, you need a license just to paint someone's toenails for a few bucks. And in most cases the primarily benefit of credentials is to limit and control the number of individuals in a given occupation. An added benefit goes to rent seekers like governments and credentialing services make a pretty penny too.
wil421 6y ago
How would this damage tech workers? Almost everyone in IT has done work with a remote co-worker or distributed team. Doesn’t matter if they are in Indiana or India, we have the tools to collaborate and conference if needed.
- mjayhn 6y ago
  Because we make $2-3x+ our EU peers salaries in most cases. Why hire Americans if their govt is in chaos every few years to the point that they can't even show up to a conference to work with their EU/etc peers and you now have a global remote market (assuming you don't need those US timezones).
  - wil421 6y ago
    American companies aren’t going to shift to Europe all of the sudden. The taxes are higher and it’s harder to fire people, American execs don’t like that. What conferences are going on? Most have been cancelled. Is the EU allowing large gatherings like that? The tech sector is strongest in America, they aren’t going to offshore their workforce because of one unfavorable president and a bunch of media hype. Not being productive at home is your issue. I don’t have to drive over an hour a day to work for 4 hours anymore.
    - mjayhn 6y ago
      > Not being productive at home is your issue I'm not productive at home right now because I'm taking care of sick relatives and have young children to keep safe while my government throws everything into chaos and we don't even know exacts on what will happen with schools, etc, and I'm not the only peer of mine having problems. This isn't me lamenting WFH. It's me lamenting WFH during this pandemic specifically from within the USA. If you're doing great, that's awesome. A lot of us aren't lately.
    - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
      America's strong tech sector is built off of the strength of the overall economy. With our entire economy disintegrating, the tech sector isn't going to be spared.

by mjayhn 6y ago

ghaff 6y ago

From what I see--and admittedly a fair number of the people I know and work with were largely remote before this--many offices at least in the US are never going back to "normal." Most of the people I know are planning to be primarily remote indefinitely. Which means that even those who do go back into an office will have to deal with a largely distributed workplace.

sokoloff 6y ago
And, importantly, competing on the global stage for talent, rather than only against people who are commuting distance to a glass and concrete temple.
- tharne 6y ago
  I think we'll see the beginnings of a regulatory moat in the not too distant future. Tech workers have the benefit of hindsight, having seen U.S. manufacturing jobs get decimated in the last few decades. A lot of fields already have built in protection from foreign competition. For instance, most if all states require that anyone conducting telemedicine work needs to be both licensed in the state were the service is being performed. Given the leftward drift of the Democratic party and Republican's newfound disdain for the big tech companies and things like HB1 visas, I would be shocked if we don't see some significant restrictions on how foreign workers are used in the tech sector.
  - sokoloff 6y ago
    I’m somewhat less sure. In a lot of cases in software, someone today in location L is creating software for the world and only a tiny slice of users are in the geographic/political entity where L is located. I don’t see the same level of natural protections for workers in CA, MA, TX that are present for the telemedicine example. If you’re writing software for the world, you might have temporarily enjoyed a bubble few decades in time where you could serve the world but only had to compete on an even footing against other labor situated in a high-cost area. This world-scale pre-post test of working remotely may be the discontinuity that aligns a global workforce to a global user base. (Remote collaboration completely sidesteps the H1B issue, of course.)
  - ghaff 6y ago
    A lot of US tech people wouldn't be happy if the government started requiring, say, Professional Engineer licenses (which in turn require 4 year degrees) for a lot of positions.
    - tharne 6y ago
      Fair enough, but the trend in everything does seem to be in favor of increased "credentialization". Heck, you need a license just to paint someone's toenails for a few bucks. And in most cases the primarily benefit of credentials is to limit and control the number of individuals in a given occupation. An added benefit goes to rent seekers like governments and credentialing services make a pretty penny too.

wil421 6y ago

How would this damage tech workers? Almost everyone in IT has done work with a remote co-worker or distributed team. Doesn’t matter if they are in Indiana or India, we have the tools to collaborate and conference if needed.

mjayhn 6y ago
Because we make $2-3x+ our EU peers salaries in most cases. Why hire Americans if their govt is in chaos every few years to the point that they can't even show up to a conference to work with their EU/etc peers and you now have a global remote market (assuming you don't need those US timezones).
- wil421 6y ago
  American companies aren’t going to shift to Europe all of the sudden. The taxes are higher and it’s harder to fire people, American execs don’t like that. What conferences are going on? Most have been cancelled. Is the EU allowing large gatherings like that? The tech sector is strongest in America, they aren’t going to offshore their workforce because of one unfavorable president and a bunch of media hype. Not being productive at home is your issue. I don’t have to drive over an hour a day to work for 4 hours anymore.
  - mjayhn 6y ago
    > Not being productive at home is your issue I'm not productive at home right now because I'm taking care of sick relatives and have young children to keep safe while my government throws everything into chaos and we don't even know exacts on what will happen with schools, etc, and I'm not the only peer of mine having problems. This isn't me lamenting WFH. It's me lamenting WFH during this pandemic specifically from within the USA. If you're doing great, that's awesome. A lot of us aren't lately.
  - TheCoelacanth 6y ago
    America's strong tech sector is built off of the strength of the overall economy. With our entire economy disintegrating, the tech sector isn't going to be spared.