4 ms·

"Now, most of the examples we know of these prolonged euphoric states are undesirable. They often come with reckless or harmful behavior, delusions, and cogniti

by jjcm 6y ago

"Now, most of the examples we know of these prolonged euphoric states are undesirable. They often come with reckless or harmful behavior, delusions, and cognitive impairment." I think there's a bit of selection bias here. Often times the only euphoria cases you really hear of are the ones that come along with some sort of detriment, leading the patient or people around them to seek help. I have a gut theory that that chronic elation is just as prominant as chronic depression, but since it rarely effects the person adversely few seek help for it. Throughout my life I've been for the most part overly happy. It's just something myself, my family, and those close to me have noticed. There are issues with it, but they tend to be minor and things that I wouldn't really seek help for: -being happy in inappropriate contexts (people tend to not resonate with you when you're happy at a funeral). -much higher tolerance with ambiguity. I'm OK with being lost somewhere, which tends to annoy those around me as I tend to wander towards a destination rather than taking an optimal route. -and an exageration of smile wrinkles on my face. The negative impact to my life is quite low. Since I'd never seek help for it, it would never really be recorded anywhere. I suspect there are plenty of people with a chronic elation that are in the same boat - there's no onus to address it as an issue. I have no idea what makes me tick differently, but I suspect with a larger understanding of human biology we'll eventually be able to isolate these things and find an optimal amount of happy for humans to have as a baseline.

johnchristopher 6y ago
Isn't there something about genetic predisposition to happiness https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q8kb4/this-gene-mutation-causes-some-people-to-feel-naturally-high https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q8kb4/this-gene-mutation... ? > -being happy in inappropriate contexts (people tend to not resonate with you when you're happy at a funeral). Oh ! I have that. I somehow feel very calm and tranquil at a funeral. I understand it's a breaking point for people and it brings into focus a lot of emotions and tensions and I have that too but not at funeral.
comboy 6y ago
In case of some failure - like not achieving your goal, losing somebody close, miscommunication with other people etc. - do you also stay happy? And what about anger? Or boredom? Do you keep smile on your face when fighting with package compatibility of packages that you did not mean to upgrade but needed to because you wanted to change some small thing real quick? Legit questions. From evolutionary standpoint I guess we should see biases on both sides, but back when living in the wild I would assume that more pessimistic worldview would be associated with higher survival rate. Not the case in today's world.
- bambax 6y ago
  > back when living in the wild I would assume that more pessimistic worldview would be associated with higher survival rate There is plenty of research that shows the opposite: only the optimists survive, and the harsher the environment, the truer this gets. Pessimists tend to give up, optimists see opportunities others miss (within reason of course).
  - comboy 6y ago
    Pessimist may have been a wrong word. Maybe something along the lines of anxiety that can make you miserable in today's safe environment but could make you think more about potential problems and prepare for them ahead of time. Like "I need to have more food for winter" vs "It's going to be fine, it's such a nice day today".
    - raducu 6y ago
      You are both on to something. Optimists are more likely to survive situations that are survivable given their lack of planning. Pesimists are more likely to survive by planning around crysises and avoiding them. There can be selection bias in both cases, and that's why we still have both.
  - bencollier49 6y ago
    I blogged about this recently. There's been a recent trend to fetishize optimism in companies. "Pessimists Are Welcome To Apply" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pessimists-welcome-apply-ben-collier https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pessimists-welcome-apply-ben-...
- jjcm 6y ago
  In the same way that someone with chronic depression can still have days when they're happy, I can certainly still have days when I'm sad. I'd say it's much to a lesser degree though and I've almost never had negative emotions carry on to the following day. Anger is pretty much non-existant for me. I had issues with a previous girlfriend because she felt I didn't care about her since I wouldn't get angry at things (she wanted to feel like I was willing to fight for her). Boredom is inescapable. I'm as susceptible to that as anyone. I highly suspect that's just because we've tailored our existence around high information density activities in our web-based existence. Code can be frustrating for sure, but I think I always know that when I am struggling with something, I'm learning from it and it makes me happy. When something REAL dumb happens, then really what can you do but laugh at it? I agree with you about the evolution of it. I think the optimistic worldview is not advantageous in high risk environments. Along those lines as well I highly suspect that there are genetic components to my happiness. My father has a similar but not as exaggerated disposition. Things just really don't get us down that much. Here's one of my favorite pictures of him after our house burned down in the 2007 California wildfires: https://image.non.io/fire.webp https://image.non.io/fire.webp
raducu 6y ago
I think what you describe is nowhere near mania or euphoria, it is just generally being content with life. I've also met people who are generally content. I've suffered from extreme mood swings, and the next day after I punched myself in the face and hit my head against a wall I would just brush it off as "Me? No way I did that, I'm always happy". If a large percentage of the population was generally happy, in the fashion you described, we'd know, there are countless scientific studies about happiness and well being.
- rpiguy 6y ago
  I think the difference between a generally content person and what JJCM is describing is this: - A generally content person responds fluidly and naturally to negative events as expected and usually goes back to being happy after the negative event - If you fall on the mania/Euphoria spectrum, things that should upset you and that do upset others do not upset you, there is literally a natural resistance to changing mood I fall somewhere between a generally content person and the euphoric, probably closer to generally content - but my resistance to mood change is definitely abnormal in that no one I interact with at work or in my family is as even and naturally resistant to mood change as I am.
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  What jjcm describes is almost definitely a FAAH mutation, likely a double mutation. I believe I have the same, and describing it as a sort of euphoria isn't entirely incorrect. Furthermore, it does correspond somewhat to the effects of various drugs on "normal" people. There's a reason some people with the mutation are described as "slightly baked" [0]. So I think it's extremely relevant to this discussion. And a large percentage of the population does indeed have the single mutation. I've heard figures of 20 and 30%. I think it's also what you do with the mutation and your life circumstances that play a role in your personal happiness, of course. I commented downthread with my personal experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24009025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24009025 [0] Highly recommended article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-without-pain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-withou...
  - 6y ago
owenversteeg 6y ago
A fellow member of the double FAAH mutation club! We meet every Tuesday, there are cookies :) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-without-pain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-withou... I'm a little different, while I am occasionally happy at inappropriate moments, serious events affecting people really bring me down, like your average person. The death of someone close to me, for example, affected me very deeply and made me sad for a good while. But with the exception of that, I typically feel quite happy. Anything that's "just money" or "just stuff" usually won't shake me, for example I stayed in a pretty upbeat mood during the theft of most of my most valuable possessions in one go. Personally, I would say whatever it is has had an extremely positive impact on my life. Aside from the huge benefit of just being happy, there's also the benefit of being more trusting (I accept random traveling strangers into my home via Couchsurfing) and doing all kinds of things I think I'd have skipped if I was more risk averse. And I've had some fun with the side effect of (to quote the New Yorker) seeming slightly baked. Might be fun to make a social network of just those who have it: personally, I find that to a degree, I kind of have to hide my happiness and general contentment at life in order to not seem like an asshole to those around me struggling with various things. It'd be nice to have a place where that's not a concern. Perhaps we should all set up a Mastodon or something?
- wcarss 6y ago
  > make a social network of just those who have it that does sound very interesting and useful, but also -- as a passerby who admittedly doesn't understand your condition at all :) -- if just one psychopath got in there, they could have a field day from manipulating a self-selected crowd of people who may be systematically easier to abuse with lower potential of negative consequences
  - owenversteeg 6y ago
    I mean, I don't think I'd make it exclusionary and private to only people that pass a test or something. Perhaps anyone could join, just with the request that they have an open mind and be generally happy. And no worries about not understanding it, some of the writing on it naturally focuses on the more extreme cases. If you met me IRL you'd just think I'm a normal guy, perhaps one that's just mostly upbeat. I don't have any worries about a psychopath infiltrating whatever future group for that reason: most people with it are just normal people, but happier. The only thing I can think of is that people with it are usually a good bit less risk-averse. So perhaps there'd be someone pushing people into doing risky things. But I already do risky things: just my last trip pre-Corona I hitchhiked on a dump truck through two countries and a conflict zone :) Furthermore, I already evaluate the risk of most things I do and direct my life accordingly. (For example, I avoid excessive driving, and as such I do most of my medium or long distance travel in very safe modes of transportation like the TGV, which has never had a fatal accident in its many years of operation.) You've given me an idea for a comedy: someone tries to infiltrate the group to get everyone to go on a risky adventure, he succeededs, and then the entire time he tries to hide that he's the only one stressing out at all the danger while everyone else is enjoying it and having a great time :)

by jjcm 6y ago

johnchristopher 6y ago

Isn't there something about genetic predisposition to happiness https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q8kb4/this-gene-mutation-causes-some-people-to-feel-naturally-high https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8q8kb4/this-gene-mutation... ? > -being happy in inappropriate contexts (people tend to not resonate with you when you're happy at a funeral). Oh ! I have that. I somehow feel very calm and tranquil at a funeral. I understand it's a breaking point for people and it brings into focus a lot of emotions and tensions and I have that too but not at funeral.

comboy 6y ago

In case of some failure - like not achieving your goal, losing somebody close, miscommunication with other people etc. - do you also stay happy? And what about anger? Or boredom? Do you keep smile on your face when fighting with package compatibility of packages that you did not mean to upgrade but needed to because you wanted to change some small thing real quick? Legit questions. From evolutionary standpoint I guess we should see biases on both sides, but back when living in the wild I would assume that more pessimistic worldview would be associated with higher survival rate. Not the case in today's world.

bambax 6y ago
> back when living in the wild I would assume that more pessimistic worldview would be associated with higher survival rate There is plenty of research that shows the opposite: only the optimists survive, and the harsher the environment, the truer this gets. Pessimists tend to give up, optimists see opportunities others miss (within reason of course).
- comboy 6y ago
  Pessimist may have been a wrong word. Maybe something along the lines of anxiety that can make you miserable in today's safe environment but could make you think more about potential problems and prepare for them ahead of time. Like "I need to have more food for winter" vs "It's going to be fine, it's such a nice day today".
  - raducu 6y ago
    You are both on to something. Optimists are more likely to survive situations that are survivable given their lack of planning. Pesimists are more likely to survive by planning around crysises and avoiding them. There can be selection bias in both cases, and that's why we still have both.
- bencollier49 6y ago
  I blogged about this recently. There's been a recent trend to fetishize optimism in companies. "Pessimists Are Welcome To Apply" https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pessimists-welcome-apply-ben-collier https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pessimists-welcome-apply-ben-...
jjcm 6y ago
In the same way that someone with chronic depression can still have days when they're happy, I can certainly still have days when I'm sad. I'd say it's much to a lesser degree though and I've almost never had negative emotions carry on to the following day. Anger is pretty much non-existant for me. I had issues with a previous girlfriend because she felt I didn't care about her since I wouldn't get angry at things (she wanted to feel like I was willing to fight for her). Boredom is inescapable. I'm as susceptible to that as anyone. I highly suspect that's just because we've tailored our existence around high information density activities in our web-based existence. Code can be frustrating for sure, but I think I always know that when I am struggling with something, I'm learning from it and it makes me happy. When something REAL dumb happens, then really what can you do but laugh at it? I agree with you about the evolution of it. I think the optimistic worldview is not advantageous in high risk environments. Along those lines as well I highly suspect that there are genetic components to my happiness. My father has a similar but not as exaggerated disposition. Things just really don't get us down that much. Here's one of my favorite pictures of him after our house burned down in the 2007 California wildfires: https://image.non.io/fire.webp https://image.non.io/fire.webp

raducu 6y ago

I think what you describe is nowhere near mania or euphoria, it is just generally being content with life. I've also met people who are generally content. I've suffered from extreme mood swings, and the next day after I punched myself in the face and hit my head against a wall I would just brush it off as "Me? No way I did that, I'm always happy". If a large percentage of the population was generally happy, in the fashion you described, we'd know, there are countless scientific studies about happiness and well being.

rpiguy 6y ago
I think the difference between a generally content person and what JJCM is describing is this: - A generally content person responds fluidly and naturally to negative events as expected and usually goes back to being happy after the negative event - If you fall on the mania/Euphoria spectrum, things that should upset you and that do upset others do not upset you, there is literally a natural resistance to changing mood I fall somewhere between a generally content person and the euphoric, probably closer to generally content - but my resistance to mood change is definitely abnormal in that no one I interact with at work or in my family is as even and naturally resistant to mood change as I am.
owenversteeg 6y ago
What jjcm describes is almost definitely a FAAH mutation, likely a double mutation. I believe I have the same, and describing it as a sort of euphoria isn't entirely incorrect. Furthermore, it does correspond somewhat to the effects of various drugs on "normal" people. There's a reason some people with the mutation are described as "slightly baked" [0]. So I think it's extremely relevant to this discussion. And a large percentage of the population does indeed have the single mutation. I've heard figures of 20 and 30%. I think it's also what you do with the mutation and your life circumstances that play a role in your personal happiness, of course. I commented downthread with my personal experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24009025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24009025 [0] Highly recommended article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-without-pain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-withou...
- 6y ago

owenversteeg 6y ago

A fellow member of the double FAAH mutation club! We meet every Tuesday, there are cookies :) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-without-pain https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/01/13/a-world-withou... I'm a little different, while I am occasionally happy at inappropriate moments, serious events affecting people really bring me down, like your average person. The death of someone close to me, for example, affected me very deeply and made me sad for a good while. But with the exception of that, I typically feel quite happy. Anything that's "just money" or "just stuff" usually won't shake me, for example I stayed in a pretty upbeat mood during the theft of most of my most valuable possessions in one go. Personally, I would say whatever it is has had an extremely positive impact on my life. Aside from the huge benefit of just being happy, there's also the benefit of being more trusting (I accept random traveling strangers into my home via Couchsurfing) and doing all kinds of things I think I'd have skipped if I was more risk averse. And I've had some fun with the side effect of (to quote the New Yorker) seeming slightly baked. Might be fun to make a social network of just those who have it: personally, I find that to a degree, I kind of have to hide my happiness and general contentment at life in order to not seem like an asshole to those around me struggling with various things. It'd be nice to have a place where that's not a concern. Perhaps we should all set up a Mastodon or something?

wcarss 6y ago
> make a social network of just those who have it that does sound very interesting and useful, but also -- as a passerby who admittedly doesn't understand your condition at all :) -- if just one psychopath got in there, they could have a field day from manipulating a self-selected crowd of people who may be systematically easier to abuse with lower potential of negative consequences
- owenversteeg 6y ago
  I mean, I don't think I'd make it exclusionary and private to only people that pass a test or something. Perhaps anyone could join, just with the request that they have an open mind and be generally happy. And no worries about not understanding it, some of the writing on it naturally focuses on the more extreme cases. If you met me IRL you'd just think I'm a normal guy, perhaps one that's just mostly upbeat. I don't have any worries about a psychopath infiltrating whatever future group for that reason: most people with it are just normal people, but happier. The only thing I can think of is that people with it are usually a good bit less risk-averse. So perhaps there'd be someone pushing people into doing risky things. But I already do risky things: just my last trip pre-Corona I hitchhiked on a dump truck through two countries and a conflict zone :) Furthermore, I already evaluate the risk of most things I do and direct my life accordingly. (For example, I avoid excessive driving, and as such I do most of my medium or long distance travel in very safe modes of transportation like the TGV, which has never had a fatal accident in its many years of operation.) You've given me an idea for a comedy: someone tries to infiltrate the group to get everyone to go on a risky adventure, he succeededs, and then the entire time he tries to hide that he's the only one stressing out at all the danger while everyone else is enjoying it and having a great time :)