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>That kind of illustrates the point that these companies just might be too big While these companies are big in every sense, they are not load bearing structur

>That kind of illustrates the point that these companies just might be too big While these companies are big in every sense, they are not load bearing structures of the economy. What I mean is that they are big, but say Google fails overnight. None of the phones work, none of their services work. There will be short term pain, losses and perhaps some economic impact too. However, the world will move on relatively quickly. There will be another tech company, or a bunch of companies to replace it. There will be new areas of economy opening up to competing products and services. Youtubers will move to platforms like Twitch, email gets moved to Hey (perhaps?), communication moves to platforms like Zoom and what not. In a few months or perhaps a year, hardware makers will pivot to a new OS, new services, new products. Business will go on, with or without whatsapp / gmail / what not. Credit flow will not stop, businesses will not stop producing goods and services. If a business depends on Google for distribution of it's services, it will eventually find other ways to do it, perhaps through twitter, or email marketing or SMS or what not. Coming to data collected over the years. Lets say all the data google ever collected gets deleted this instant. The most hurt people are the advertisers, who will start buying generic, non targeted ads for some time and then slowly move to other platforms. However on the flip side, a company like Google has very real power to influence public thought, manufacture consent, hide facism, nudge elections, lobby congress for unfair playing grounds, etc. Companies like Google, Facebook & Apple are big, but in a lopsided way. Too much power to do harm, but not really a 'catastrophic' effect on daily lives of people, in the long term. They are important, but not structural. They provide jobs, but are not irreplaceable. Their power to do good is substantial, but their goal to increase shareholder value comes first. In my view, big tech companies ought to be churned, by force if necessary, to prevent monopolistic or oligopolistic entities. Imagine what havoc Facebook can wreak with society, if it actively starts promoting one political spectrum, and suppresses the other. The sad part is, it may already be doing that and we just can't damn know.

vosper 6y ago
There isn't a company in the world (except maybe Microsoft, with Outlook, and Azure to build on) who are in a position to even think about stepping in to replace Google's biggest services, and the businesses that are built on, and integrate with, them. Even with a year's notice, let alone overnight. I think you're drastically underestimating the scale (and number - you missed Google Maps, which is bordering on an essential service) of these systems, the degree to which people rely on them - both businesses and individuals - and the difficulty of replacing them. If Google failed overnight it would be a macro-economically significant event.
- goatinaboat 6y ago
  I think you're drastically underestimating the scale (and number - you missed Google Maps, which is bordering on an essential service) of these systems, the degree to which people rely on them - both businesses and individuals - and the difficulty of replacing them. I don't know how old you are but I suspect this is an age thing. I remember the world before Google, before smartphones, before mobile phones even. It actually worked pretty well. People had jobs, traveled, communicated over long distances, read the news, invested in shares, organised events with friends, bought products, and everything else. Google at vast cost has made some of those things marginally more convenient, as well as introducing a whole raft of new problems. They could go away and it would be a blip nothing more. As for Google Maps I also remember when everyone owned an "A-Z" and found their way around cities with it, and that was OK too, and there was very little misleading information in an A-Z nor squabbles over who "owned" which business and could write about it! If Google failed overnight it would be a macro-economically significant event. Other than their shareholders and a bunch of sleazy adtech merchants without which the world would be better off anyway, very few would be negatively impacted beyond a minor inconvenience for a few weeks.
  - vosper 6y ago
    I’m old enough to remember all of these things you’ve condescendingly assumed I must be ignorant of, including trying to find my way around LA freeways, during my first hours in America, at night, with a paper map unfolded on my lap, trying to work my way backwards from the address of our motel to our current location, as that changed constantly at 60 mph. Google Maps is much better. But you’re missing my point, and also the specific thing I was replying to. My point was not that things didn’t work before Google, obviously they did - we’re here, now. The universe didn’t start with Google. My point is that so many businesses and people today are directly, constantly, relying on the multitude of Google services that if Google went away overnight it would be a catastrophe for them. Google going away overnight is the thing that was posited in the post I replied to. I also made no assertion about whether Google is a net good or not, so again you’re replying to something I didn’t say. (For the record I do believe sum of the services provided by Google and the cost at which they provide them is a net good for the world. No, In not interested in debating that)
nprateem 6y ago
Losing YouTube would be like the sacking of the Great Library
- m463 6y ago
  When I think of situations like that, I think it's an ecosystem and if youtube would be limited or disappear lots of other services would spring up.
- kumarvvr 6y ago
  If you are talking about videos that teach something, for most of youtubers out there that churn out quality content, they will have a library of videos that they will upload to an alternate site. Things will be back up in no time. I wouldn't worry about it too much. What's the worst that could happen in YT is dead now, people go back to not wasting time on YT Binges.
voidhorse 6y ago
I’m in full agreement with the social and political concerns you raise, and I think it’s the strongest argument for breaking up these companies, but I don’t think the economy is as flexible or pliable as you assume—especially when the small companies that would try to replace some of the services the big guys offer often rely on a subset of these very services (e.g. cloud services). I’m not convinced a start up can get to the same level of quality as these big four within a year or so—and that dip in quality will have palpable economic effects, sure it may not cause a collapse, but you’d experience a slow down of the economic engine for sure, and it'd last longer than a year—basically it’d last as long as it took for some other company to reach monopoly size—concentration of wealth and economic power is a flaw internal to the structure of capitalism itself and is the inevitable telos of capitalistic structure. I think a better way to place limits on the social and political power of these companies is to put in greater data protections. Make these companies pay for user data, make it incredibly difficult for them to abuse data or users, that would help restrict their influence and open up avenues for competition—a smaller company may not have as great of a service but if they offer users greater compensation for their data they can draw in customers.

vosper 6y ago

There isn't a company in the world (except maybe Microsoft, with Outlook, and Azure to build on) who are in a position to even think about stepping in to replace Google's biggest services, and the businesses that are built on, and integrate with, them. Even with a year's notice, let alone overnight. I think you're drastically underestimating the scale (and number - you missed Google Maps, which is bordering on an essential service) of these systems, the degree to which people rely on them - both businesses and individuals - and the difficulty of replacing them. If Google failed overnight it would be a macro-economically significant event.

goatinaboat 6y ago
I think you're drastically underestimating the scale (and number - you missed Google Maps, which is bordering on an essential service) of these systems, the degree to which people rely on them - both businesses and individuals - and the difficulty of replacing them. I don't know how old you are but I suspect this is an age thing. I remember the world before Google, before smartphones, before mobile phones even. It actually worked pretty well. People had jobs, traveled, communicated over long distances, read the news, invested in shares, organised events with friends, bought products, and everything else. Google at vast cost has made some of those things marginally more convenient, as well as introducing a whole raft of new problems. They could go away and it would be a blip nothing more. As for Google Maps I also remember when everyone owned an "A-Z" and found their way around cities with it, and that was OK too, and there was very little misleading information in an A-Z nor squabbles over who "owned" which business and could write about it! If Google failed overnight it would be a macro-economically significant event. Other than their shareholders and a bunch of sleazy adtech merchants without which the world would be better off anyway, very few would be negatively impacted beyond a minor inconvenience for a few weeks.
- vosper 6y ago
  I’m old enough to remember all of these things you’ve condescendingly assumed I must be ignorant of, including trying to find my way around LA freeways, during my first hours in America, at night, with a paper map unfolded on my lap, trying to work my way backwards from the address of our motel to our current location, as that changed constantly at 60 mph. Google Maps is much better. But you’re missing my point, and also the specific thing I was replying to. My point was not that things didn’t work before Google, obviously they did - we’re here, now. The universe didn’t start with Google. My point is that so many businesses and people today are directly, constantly, relying on the multitude of Google services that if Google went away overnight it would be a catastrophe for them. Google going away overnight is the thing that was posited in the post I replied to. I also made no assertion about whether Google is a net good or not, so again you’re replying to something I didn’t say. (For the record I do believe sum of the services provided by Google and the cost at which they provide them is a net good for the world. No, In not interested in debating that)

nprateem 6y ago

Losing YouTube would be like the sacking of the Great Library

m463 6y ago
When I think of situations like that, I think it's an ecosystem and if youtube would be limited or disappear lots of other services would spring up.
kumarvvr 6y ago
If you are talking about videos that teach something, for most of youtubers out there that churn out quality content, they will have a library of videos that they will upload to an alternate site. Things will be back up in no time. I wouldn't worry about it too much. What's the worst that could happen in YT is dead now, people go back to not wasting time on YT Binges.

voidhorse 6y ago

I’m in full agreement with the social and political concerns you raise, and I think it’s the strongest argument for breaking up these companies, but I don’t think the economy is as flexible or pliable as you assume—especially when the small companies that would try to replace some of the services the big guys offer often rely on a subset of these very services (e.g. cloud services). I’m not convinced a start up can get to the same level of quality as these big four within a year or so—and that dip in quality will have palpable economic effects, sure it may not cause a collapse, but you’d experience a slow down of the economic engine for sure, and it'd last longer than a year—basically it’d last as long as it took for some other company to reach monopoly size—concentration of wealth and economic power is a flaw internal to the structure of capitalism itself and is the inevitable telos of capitalistic structure. I think a better way to place limits on the social and political power of these companies is to put in greater data protections. Make these companies pay for user data, make it incredibly difficult for them to abuse data or users, that would help restrict their influence and open up avenues for competition—a smaller company may not have as great of a service but if they offer users greater compensation for their data they can draw in customers.