5 ms·

It would be fascinating if this resulted in the removal of rows of seats to make the passengers that they do have more distanced (and comfortable), maybe even s

It would be fascinating if this resulted in the removal of rows of seats to make the passengers that they do have more distanced (and comfortable), maybe even seeing competition in the area of pandemic friendly amenities.

nickff 6y ago
There are some all-first-class airliners, generally used for very long-distance routes. I would expect the result of what you're describing would be a proliferation of similar models.
jimmaswell 6y ago
Why would we make such costly changes for a blip in the history of the planes? Almost nobody is going to want to keep up this horrid lifestyle after the virus is over.
- hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
  Exactly. I'm completely baffled that some folks seem to think that our short term responses to Covid, which as you say are pretty horrid, will stick around after the pandemic ends. I agree there are some instances where Covid has accelerated changes that were already in motion, but I've seen too much "introvert fantasy fiction" ignoring that the majority of people are itching to end these restrictions ASAP.
  - jdhn 6y ago
    I used to think the same, but then I realized that it's simply a minority of very loud voices who are actively supporting their position. Most people want lockdowns to be lifted, but they're not as vocal so it seems like they aren't saying anything.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Most people want lockdowns to be lifted, but they're not as vocal so it seems like they aren't saying anything. Do you have a citation for this? That "want" is doing a lot of work... everyone wants the lockdowns lifted, sure. But do they support lifting the lockdowns and related restrictions, right now? No. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/22/coronavirus-survey-another-season-lockdown-mask-wearing-ahead/5479999002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/22/coronavirus-... > Support for wearing masks in public is up to 68% from 54% since late March, Gerzema said, and "this shift is attributed to those who were indifferent to masks before." Previously in March, one-third (33%) responded as "neither positive or negative" on mask-wearing, but that fell to 19% last month. > Most Americans (86%) said they were also willing to follow guidelines including masks and social distancing if it meant ending a lockdown within a month. The older the respondent, the more likely to agree, with seniors more likely to practice social distancing (96%) than boomers (89%), Gen Xers (87%) and Gen Z (77%). Seniors were more willing to wear a mask, too: 94%, compared with Boomers (88%), Gen Xers (85%) and Gen Z (78%). > And most respondents want state officials to take measures to help stem transmission of the virus. More than three-fourths (77%) support enacting mandatory 14-day quarantines for travelers coming from states with a high resurgence of COVID-19.
  - acdha 6y ago
    Most responses will be rolled back when it’s safe again but there’s a good argument that air travel might not. The entire world is getting experience with remote meetings & alternatives and they’re not going to forget that in a year, and even most Republicans are starting to accept that climate change is real. It would not surprise me to see that a lot of business travel won’t come back as people ask whether they dislike a video chat enough to spend thousands of dollars. That disproportionately affects airline revenue, not to mention hotels, restaurants, etc. and I wouldn’t be surprised if that caused businesses to make permanent changes to emphasize parts of the experience which a remote chat can’t match.
    - Animats 6y ago
      Yes. Some remote work will move back to offices, and some won't. Brick and mortar retail will probably take a huge hit. The big problem with online grocery shopping was getting people used to using it. That's now done.
      - bamboozled 6y ago
        Done for who? for you? I'm still always going to get fresh produce from local stores, and I don't want that to change anytime soon.
      - bbarnett 6y ago
        If by "getting used to it", you mean "experiencing the horror", than sure. I tried it, twice. In both cases, produce was picked by either someone that didn't care, or didn't know how to tell if some food (mellons) were ripe. Even if only poor produce was available, well, I'd have seen, and just not bought it. I received substitutions too, and without permission. Meat was sent with very soon expiry dates. I'd never snag that in person. Same for bread. Online grocery is a no go for me. My local grocer is 10 minutes away, in store time is maybe 20 minutes, including checkout. I get what I want, how I want it, and save money by not having unusable stuff delivered to me. Food isn't like a TV. One orange is not the same as a other. Even bananas... I prefer them almost green, a friend I know, almost rotten.
- jedberg 6y ago
  I agree most things won't stick around, but I really do hope all the extra plastic shields stick around. It would be nice for all the retail workers to be at lower risk of general sickness like cold and flu. I also would be totally ok with a law that required masks October to March to cut down on cold and flu season.
- pbourke 6y ago
  > Almost nobody is going to want to keep up this horrid lifestyle after the virus is over. We are modifying our lifestyle in response to COVID-19. I don’t plan to spend significant time in an office going forward. Do you think there will be long-term changes in travel patterns l? I’m curious if there will be, as we have made some changes like this (postponing international travel for several years, buying a travel trailer to focus on travel to parks, etc).
  - kmlx 6y ago
    i think there will be the mother of all travel booms when covid dies out.
GhostVII 6y ago
People can already pay more to be more comfortable on planes - almost no one does because it isn't worth it. I'm fine with putting up with 10% less legroom to save 10% on my ticket, given that it is only a few hours and a ticket is several hundred. And I think the majority of the population agrees, given how full economy is compared to the more expensive classes (at least in the flights I am on).
- acdha 6y ago
  Have you ever seen 10%? When I look it’s usually 50% or a whole number multiple, which is big enough that most people aren’t going to pay.
  - xvilka 6y ago
    I think price here works as a filter precisely for this reason. Otherwise the demand would be too high for airlines to manage and for business potential passengers to buy tickets.

nickff 6y ago

There are some all-first-class airliners, generally used for very long-distance routes. I would expect the result of what you're describing would be a proliferation of similar models.

jimmaswell 6y ago

Why would we make such costly changes for a blip in the history of the planes? Almost nobody is going to want to keep up this horrid lifestyle after the virus is over.

hn_throwaway_99 6y ago
Exactly. I'm completely baffled that some folks seem to think that our short term responses to Covid, which as you say are pretty horrid, will stick around after the pandemic ends. I agree there are some instances where Covid has accelerated changes that were already in motion, but I've seen too much "introvert fantasy fiction" ignoring that the majority of people are itching to end these restrictions ASAP.
- jdhn 6y ago
  I used to think the same, but then I realized that it's simply a minority of very loud voices who are actively supporting their position. Most people want lockdowns to be lifted, but they're not as vocal so it seems like they aren't saying anything.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Most people want lockdowns to be lifted, but they're not as vocal so it seems like they aren't saying anything. Do you have a citation for this? That "want" is doing a lot of work... everyone wants the lockdowns lifted, sure. But do they support lifting the lockdowns and related restrictions, right now? No. https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/22/coronavirus-survey-another-season-lockdown-mask-wearing-ahead/5479999002/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/22/coronavirus-... > Support for wearing masks in public is up to 68% from 54% since late March, Gerzema said, and "this shift is attributed to those who were indifferent to masks before." Previously in March, one-third (33%) responded as "neither positive or negative" on mask-wearing, but that fell to 19% last month. > Most Americans (86%) said they were also willing to follow guidelines including masks and social distancing if it meant ending a lockdown within a month. The older the respondent, the more likely to agree, with seniors more likely to practice social distancing (96%) than boomers (89%), Gen Xers (87%) and Gen Z (77%). Seniors were more willing to wear a mask, too: 94%, compared with Boomers (88%), Gen Xers (85%) and Gen Z (78%). > And most respondents want state officials to take measures to help stem transmission of the virus. More than three-fourths (77%) support enacting mandatory 14-day quarantines for travelers coming from states with a high resurgence of COVID-19.
- acdha 6y ago
  Most responses will be rolled back when it’s safe again but there’s a good argument that air travel might not. The entire world is getting experience with remote meetings & alternatives and they’re not going to forget that in a year, and even most Republicans are starting to accept that climate change is real. It would not surprise me to see that a lot of business travel won’t come back as people ask whether they dislike a video chat enough to spend thousands of dollars. That disproportionately affects airline revenue, not to mention hotels, restaurants, etc. and I wouldn’t be surprised if that caused businesses to make permanent changes to emphasize parts of the experience which a remote chat can’t match.
  - Animats 6y ago
    Yes. Some remote work will move back to offices, and some won't. Brick and mortar retail will probably take a huge hit. The big problem with online grocery shopping was getting people used to using it. That's now done.
    - bamboozled 6y ago
      Done for who? for you? I'm still always going to get fresh produce from local stores, and I don't want that to change anytime soon.
    - bbarnett 6y ago
      If by "getting used to it", you mean "experiencing the horror", than sure. I tried it, twice. In both cases, produce was picked by either someone that didn't care, or didn't know how to tell if some food (mellons) were ripe. Even if only poor produce was available, well, I'd have seen, and just not bought it. I received substitutions too, and without permission. Meat was sent with very soon expiry dates. I'd never snag that in person. Same for bread. Online grocery is a no go for me. My local grocer is 10 minutes away, in store time is maybe 20 minutes, including checkout. I get what I want, how I want it, and save money by not having unusable stuff delivered to me. Food isn't like a TV. One orange is not the same as a other. Even bananas... I prefer them almost green, a friend I know, almost rotten.
jedberg 6y ago
I agree most things won't stick around, but I really do hope all the extra plastic shields stick around. It would be nice for all the retail workers to be at lower risk of general sickness like cold and flu. I also would be totally ok with a law that required masks October to March to cut down on cold and flu season.
pbourke 6y ago
> Almost nobody is going to want to keep up this horrid lifestyle after the virus is over. We are modifying our lifestyle in response to COVID-19. I don’t plan to spend significant time in an office going forward. Do you think there will be long-term changes in travel patterns l? I’m curious if there will be, as we have made some changes like this (postponing international travel for several years, buying a travel trailer to focus on travel to parks, etc).
- kmlx 6y ago
  i think there will be the mother of all travel booms when covid dies out.

GhostVII 6y ago

People can already pay more to be more comfortable on planes - almost no one does because it isn't worth it. I'm fine with putting up with 10% less legroom to save 10% on my ticket, given that it is only a few hours and a ticket is several hundred. And I think the majority of the population agrees, given how full economy is compared to the more expensive classes (at least in the flights I am on).

acdha 6y ago
Have you ever seen 10%? When I look it’s usually 50% or a whole number multiple, which is big enough that most people aren’t going to pay.
- xvilka 6y ago
  I think price here works as a filter precisely for this reason. Otherwise the demand would be too high for airlines to manage and for business potential passengers to buy tickets.