6 ms·

When did Ada become popular in the embedded RTOS space? First I've heard of it and I've been working in the space for two decades.

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NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
In aerospace and/or defense?
- staycoolboy 6y ago
  No. Is that where Ada is used?
  - uxp100 6y ago
    Breaking into automotive slightly I think too.
    - im_down_w_otp 6y ago
      It's technically "allowed" by ISO26262, but I've never encountered anybody using it for anything in automotive. The automotive software ecosystem is dominated by C and firmly kept that way by the bevy of tools in use (e.g. flavors of AUTOSAR, Mathworks Simulink, etc.). That's not to say that nobody is using, or hasn't used, Ada in automotive, but it would seem likely vestigial rather than up and coming based on my exposure to that industry.
      - uxp100 6y ago
        https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/02/05/adacore-secure-autonomous-driving/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/02/05/adacore-secure-auto... I was thinking of this, which is a little vague, but the software will have some ASIL classification I'm sure, but maybe is not typical automotive software. Article mentions certain firmware.
  - wwright 6y ago
    It was written as part of a DoD project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#His...
    - dhosek 6y ago
      I remember when it came out. It was a bear when it came to CPU time for compilation. At UIC, where CPU time was subject to weekly quotas, students in the Ada team had to work in teams because they'd use up their quota of CPU time (you'd get a fresh allocation of CPU each week and once you went over your quota you couldn't log back in until you got a new allocation) in one programming session and would have to log in to a different account to continue working the next day.
      - int_19h 6y ago
        I don't have any practical experience with the language, but based on the spec, it sounds like Ada generics would have much the same problem wrt compilation times as C++ templates do, at least if you try to fully optimize them (i.e. avoid boxing and similar techniques to allow generic code to be compiled just once, instead of once for every unique instantiation in every translation unit).
        pjmlp 6y ago
        Not really, they need to be explicitly defined before use. Which then thanks to packages, they can be reused across several projects when similar type parameters are required. So you only generate List(T => Integer) once for the whole project, when project architecture is properly done. A scenario that eventually might be possible in C++, around C++23 time frame, taking into consideration how long the modules infrastructure might need to mature.
      - wwright 6y ago
        Sounds like Rust, hah.
        6y ago
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    Yup; there's real-time Ada in half the things flying around, and most all of the ones painted grey.
    - staycoolboy 6y ago
      That is amazing. There are so many good links in the peer comments. I worked at STMicro, then briefly at Arm, then at IAR. I never once encountered Ada. Two separate worlds!
  - imglorp 6y ago
    NASA. https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36538/what-makes-ada-the-language-of-choice-for-the-isss-safety-critical-systems https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36538/what-makes-a... Airbus. https://www.adahome.com/Ammo/Success/aerofws.html https://www.adahome.com/Ammo/Success/aerofws.html Boeing. http://archive.adaic.com/projects/atwork/boeing.html http://archive.adaic.com/projects/atwork/boeing.html
  - guenthert 6y ago
    Robotics (as in 6dof teach-in industrial robot arms you'd find on a factory floor). At least that used to be the case 30 years ago, but I doubt that changed.
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NovemberWhiskey 6y ago

In aerospace and/or defense?

staycoolboy 6y ago
No. Is that where Ada is used?
- uxp100 6y ago
  Breaking into automotive slightly I think too.
  - im_down_w_otp 6y ago
    It's technically "allowed" by ISO26262, but I've never encountered anybody using it for anything in automotive. The automotive software ecosystem is dominated by C and firmly kept that way by the bevy of tools in use (e.g. flavors of AUTOSAR, Mathworks Simulink, etc.). That's not to say that nobody is using, or hasn't used, Ada in automotive, but it would seem likely vestigial rather than up and coming based on my exposure to that industry.
    - uxp100 6y ago
      https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/02/05/adacore-secure-autonomous-driving/ https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2019/02/05/adacore-secure-auto... I was thinking of this, which is a little vague, but the software will have some ASIL classification I'm sure, but maybe is not typical automotive software. Article mentions certain firmware.
- wwright 6y ago
  It was written as part of a DoD project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language)#His...
  - dhosek 6y ago
    I remember when it came out. It was a bear when it came to CPU time for compilation. At UIC, where CPU time was subject to weekly quotas, students in the Ada team had to work in teams because they'd use up their quota of CPU time (you'd get a fresh allocation of CPU each week and once you went over your quota you couldn't log back in until you got a new allocation) in one programming session and would have to log in to a different account to continue working the next day.
    - int_19h 6y ago
      I don't have any practical experience with the language, but based on the spec, it sounds like Ada generics would have much the same problem wrt compilation times as C++ templates do, at least if you try to fully optimize them (i.e. avoid boxing and similar techniques to allow generic code to be compiled just once, instead of once for every unique instantiation in every translation unit).
      - pjmlp 6y ago
        Not really, they need to be explicitly defined before use. Which then thanks to packages, they can be reused across several projects when similar type parameters are required. So you only generate List(T => Integer) once for the whole project, when project architecture is properly done. A scenario that eventually might be possible in C++, around C++23 time frame, taking into consideration how long the modules infrastructure might need to mature.
    - wwright 6y ago
      Sounds like Rust, hah.
      - 6y ago
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Yup; there's real-time Ada in half the things flying around, and most all of the ones painted grey.
  - staycoolboy 6y ago
    That is amazing. There are so many good links in the peer comments. I worked at STMicro, then briefly at Arm, then at IAR. I never once encountered Ada. Two separate worlds!
- imglorp 6y ago
  NASA. https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36538/what-makes-ada-the-language-of-choice-for-the-isss-safety-critical-systems https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/36538/what-makes-a... Airbus. https://www.adahome.com/Ammo/Success/aerofws.html https://www.adahome.com/Ammo/Success/aerofws.html Boeing. http://archive.adaic.com/projects/atwork/boeing.html http://archive.adaic.com/projects/atwork/boeing.html
- guenthert 6y ago
  Robotics (as in 6dof teach-in industrial robot arms you'd find on a factory floor). At least that used to be the case 30 years ago, but I doubt that changed.

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