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Microsoft went well beyond just trying to get paid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,

by jefftk 6y ago

Microsoft went well beyond just trying to get paid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... I work on ads at Google and "inserting itself into every aspect of communication and information retrieval on the Internet to build a profile of people so that it can better cram targeted ads into their faces" is not a good model. For example, Gmail data is not used for targeting ads: https://blog.google/products/gmail/g-suite-gains-traction-in-the-enterprise-g-suites-gmail-and-consumer-gmail-to-more-closely-align/ https://blog.google/products/gmail/g-suite-gains-traction-in... (speaking only for myself)

deleuze 6y ago
You work on _ads_ at Google, and are concerned about the ethics of working at Microsoft in the 90s? Sure, anti-competitive business practices might be unethical, but how can you possibly in good conscience suggest that bundling IE is more ethically problematic than building massive surveillance applications to sell ads? Just the implications of the data collection alone should be enough for you to quit your job before even considering any business angle. Hope you enjoy the stock grants!
- jefftk 6y ago
  > Hope you enjoy the stock grants! If I thought my work at Google was making the world worse I wouldn't do it; see this discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21617291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21617291 For example, I'm currently exploring whether https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainers/subresource-loading.md https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainers/su... can increase the security and privacy of ad loading and rendering. > bundling IE is more ethically problematic than... I don't think bundling IE was at all the worst that Microsoft was doing in the 90s. Their efforts to kill the web, Java, and Linux, all threats to their strategy of a Windows monopoly, were much more of a problem. > building massive surveillance applications to sell ads Ads fund an enormous number of sites, and without them the web and information in general would be even more centralized. If you oppose ad personalization and targeting, trying to convince individual adtech employees to quit is a terrible strategy. Instead you should advocate for legislation such as the GDPR and CCPA that set out what sorts of behavior are acceptable.

by jefftk 6y ago

deleuze 6y ago

You work on _ads_ at Google, and are concerned about the ethics of working at Microsoft in the 90s? Sure, anti-competitive business practices might be unethical, but how can you possibly in good conscience suggest that bundling IE is more ethically problematic than building massive surveillance applications to sell ads? Just the implications of the data collection alone should be enough for you to quit your job before even considering any business angle. Hope you enjoy the stock grants!

jefftk 6y ago
> Hope you enjoy the stock grants! If I thought my work at Google was making the world worse I wouldn't do it; see this discussion a few months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21617291 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21617291 For example, I'm currently exploring whether https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainers/subresource-loading.md https://github.com/WICG/webpackage/blob/master/explainers/su... can increase the security and privacy of ad loading and rendering. > bundling IE is more ethically problematic than... I don't think bundling IE was at all the worst that Microsoft was doing in the 90s. Their efforts to kill the web, Java, and Linux, all threats to their strategy of a Windows monopoly, were much more of a problem. > building massive surveillance applications to sell ads Ads fund an enormous number of sites, and without them the web and information in general would be even more centralized. If you oppose ad personalization and targeting, trying to convince individual adtech employees to quit is a terrible strategy. Instead you should advocate for legislation such as the GDPR and CCPA that set out what sorts of behavior are acceptable.